• infestedandy - February 21, 2012 10:08 p.m.

    This is going to come across as incredibly pretentious, but Sakurai saying "How did we make this?" just makes me laugh. How Sakurai? You copy and pasted the same characters and their moves sets into a new game and came out with "new" characters that just use the old sets. Yeah there are plenty of honest to goodness true new characters in Brawl, but it's honestly not enough to make me overlook the pure laziness on the developer side. Smash attacks were such a great idea and then you gave the same attack to Fox, Falco, and Wolf. Awesome job guys. I won't even get into the atrocious single player game or the beyond awful online component (which Nintendo needs to fix on the Wii U), but I will say that there is so much potential in a game like this. You can still have fun with the game. It's not like every character is as deep as actual fighting game characters (Mortal Kombat, Tekken) but the variety really should be there.
  • GameManiac - February 21, 2012 10:22 p.m.

    Ugh... There's so much wrong with your comment that I don't know where to begin. I'll start with your biggest flaw: "It's not like every character is as deep as actual fighting game characters". What complete bullshit. The way I see it, characters in Super Smash Bros. are twice as deep as characters in other fighting games. All characters in Super Smash Bros. walk, run, jump, double-jump, attack from the ground and in midair in four directions, have smash attacks in all four directions, guard, evade in four directions, grab and throw in four directions, pick up and throw items in four directions, fall, hit the floor, retaliate when downed, taunt in three different manners, etc. And I haven't even BEGAN to talk at how they react to other characters' actions, or how they use dozens upon dozens of different items. Just adding ONE new character adds a surplus of computer work that the likes of you haven't wrapped your head around.
  • Hobogonigal - February 22, 2012 1:07 a.m.

    Agreed. Smash Bros isn't just a copy and paste, its a great game that appears simple to newbies but is actually rather complex underneath. In fact it included so many modes/ characters/ stages that people complain about how much was put in it. Also Fox, Falco and Wolf are not copy and pastes, they have differing stats and their movesets /final smashes have differing speeds, heights, shock damages, ranges etc. That's why I can play well as Falco but am completely awful as Fox.
  • infestedandy - February 23, 2012 10:11 p.m.

    @hobogonigal They complained about it for reasons that aren't good. Did you even play all of the levels? Some of those stages were atrocious and what about the remade classics? They could have done a MUCH better job at remastering those. Just because there's a huge amount of stuff doesn't make it automatically awesome. "Also Fox, Falco and Wolf are not copy and pastes, they have differing stats and their movesets /final smashes have differing speeds, heights, shock damages, ranges etc. That's why I can play well as Falco but am completely awful as Fox." I really can't believe you just said this. Not copy/pastes? What do you call using the same model and basically adjusting a slider? If one character shoots something a bit faster it doesn't make it acceptable that he's a unique character. It'd be like putting a Scorpion clone in the next Mortal Kombat that shoots a blue harpoon, but it's slower. That would not be acceptable. Those changes do not constitute a massive difference and if you have trouble playing as Fox when you say you're great with Falco, well... I don't know what to tell you man. I really don't.
  • Hobogonigal - February 24, 2012 4:53 a.m.

    Last time I checked, a copy and paste is an exact copy therefore you are incorrect regarding fox/ falco/ wolf. Also, new characters do not 'just use the old sets'. Unless of course the movesets for Pit, Snake, Sonic, Mr. Game and Watch, Wario, Poke'mon trainer, Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Ike, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Pikmin & Olimar and ROB have been used before... No the designers are not lazy, they created these characters from scratch as well as all the levels. I have played all of the levels, I wouldn't really be in a good position to comment if I hadn't played the whole game. Whilst some levels are simple such as animal crossing most have interactive elements which are really awesome such as the bridge level where half of it becomes demolished, Warioware which is frantic and filled with minigames, Delfino Island where the whole stage is picked up and moved and the pokemon stage where Dialga/ Palkia attack occasionally from the sides. These stages are great and are not 'atrocious'. In fact, I would only call a level 'atrocious' if it is unplayable. In most fighting games, levels are simply a 2D plane with a different background each time so I assume most of Street Fighter 4's levels are 'atrocious' as well? In fact you do not even give a reason why the levels are atrocious so I must assume that you are trolling. When I said people complain about how much was put into the game, I meant that the game wasn't as compact as it was in melee and people disliked this for some reason (not me). About the remastered stages, I don't understand how they could remaster the stages any better without REDESIGNING them. They slightly upgraded the graphics which is basically what all remasterings have done these days e.g. Resi 4 HD, Splinter Cell HD, God of War HD. I know you are going to reply saying something about the single player and I will say in advance that it wasn't as bad as you made it out to be. The design was fairly basic but it had some good frantic moments and the CG clips showing how the characters eventually met up over the course of the story were all well done and often funny. The single player also includes brand new target smash tracks, a boss battle mode as well as a redesigned home-run contest which led to players having to find new tactics. There are also 50 brand new scenario event challenges in the single player mode and the multi-man brawl mode. Please don't get me started on all the new trophies, stickers and the coin game... I think I have pretty much answered all of your trolling in this reply; oh hold on. Fox is a lot quicker than falco, his blaster does not stagger the target, his final smash does not rise up as quick as Falco's which prevents me from carrying players and K.O'ing them at the top and he generally has less range than Falco. Plus Falco jumps higher. Their standard moves are completely different as well. Not just me, two friends say the same thing and that's why they prefer Falco compared to Fox.
  • taokaka - February 24, 2012 6:35 a.m.

    I have to disagree about the level design, firstly "In most fighting games, levels are simply a 2D plane with a different background each time" you seem to be disregarding the entire genre of 3d fighters like tekken, soulcalibur, dead or alive and virtua fighter. And secondly there's a reason for many fighting games not featuring dynamic stages, in the fast paced 2d fighters like street fighter and blazblue it would simply be too hectic for example having your opponent spamming projectiles at you while having to deal with a scripted event would be too much. Also with the fighting systems to quite a few games the key to success is to try and not give your opponent the chance to attack you because if they do you lose this thing called health which may sound alien to you, doing this however takes a lot of timing and complex manoeuvres or spamming depending on your skill level and dealing with dynamic events would be painful. Imagine this you're about to win a perfect round of tekken with a single chain of moves when all of a sudden a giant enemy crab appears and you have to stop owning in order to not get knocked down or whatever. With games like dead or alive where the aim is to make you feel like you're fighting in a Hollywood movie then dynamic stages are great because the fighting system of DOA works perfectly with its stages. Other fighting games with similar stage design to smash bros which incorporate light platforming and dynamic events like the digimon rumble arena games I mentioned earlier don't have fighting systems built around chains of combos which is why they work well with these stages. But there are perfectly valid reasons that the ground doesn't collapse underneath you in street fighter and others such as the fighting mechanics, health and the fact that fights are usually timed to last 60 seconds in many games which presents even more problems, so it's just better to leave dynamic stages out of games where they don't belong.
  • Hobogonigal - February 24, 2012 7:55 a.m.

    How did I know that you would do this to me Taokaka? I was replying to the statement 'Some of those stages were atrocious' and because infestedandy did not give a reason why, I assumed that it was because some stages were bland or featureless. I simply compared this to stages in Street Fighter 4 which also so not have interactive elements and as you have said, stages in Blazblue are also not interactive. Does this mean that the stages in these games are also 'atrocious'? Smash Bros is a rather versatile game and can be played with either constantly interactive/transforming stages or simple static stages such as those in SF4 and BB so it should be allowed to have both varieties of stages. I know that you stated that there do exist 3D fighters such as Soulcalibur and Dead or Alive however however the fighting in those games is done in a 2D plane (I cannot miss my target according to the z-plane) with constant adjustments to the camera angle so really my statement was not too far from the truth. Health does not sound alien to me, I do not simply play Smash bros. non-stop, I do play other games which you well know. However, it is my personal opinion that it is not fair if I can deplete someone's healthbar by performing weak staggering spam attacks over and over again. I believe that the percentage damage in Smash Bros. helps to prevent this which is why it is a good idea. Although my original argument was that infectedandy said that the levels in Smash Bros. were 'atrocious' and I said that if this was because the levels were bland due to little interactivity, by the same logic the stages in Street Fighter 4 must also be bland due to little interactivity. I did not mention anything regarding healthbars, timelimits or how interactive stages would be a stupid idea for a game like Street Fighter, you seem to have created this argument from no cause. In fact your reasons are valid if used in a different argument, just not this one.
  • taokaka - February 24, 2012 9:15 a.m.

    my argument was merely directed at "In most fighting games, levels are simply a 2D plane with a different background each time" which was a horrible thing to say and you are a monster for saying it. However it is true that 3d fighters give off the effect of taking place in a rotating 2d plane with the way the camera moves but I don't see how that helps your original point, these fighters take place in fully 3d arenas and not on a simple 2d plane with a background. And quite frankly it doesn't sound like you appreciate the effort that goes into creating the background art for 2d fighters so as punishment for your crimes of under appreciation you must read this
  • Hobogonigal - February 24, 2012 7:11 p.m.

    They are still 2D backgrounds and in effect 3D fighters are in their basic form a square with background as the four walls which are constantly seen from a 2D plane. I did not bash the design of these levels, in fact I was standing up for them saying that if the non-interactive 2D levels on Smash bros were atrocious then 'most of Street Fighter 4's levels are 'atrocious' as well'. My reasoning was that I do not believe these Smash bros levels to be atrocious so therefore I do not think the levels of other fighters are atrocious as well. I know you absolutely love BlazBlue and I know that a lot of time and effort goes into creating the stages but how are they nothing but a 2D plane with a different background?
  • taokaka - February 24, 2012 8:40 p.m.

    you said that 3d stages are squares with four walls but that is pretty much wrong, those two aspects rarely occur at the same time in stages due to if you get trapped in a corner that is pretty much a KO. So many fighters such as tekken that use walls take place in circular arenas or a ring out system where a player can be knocked out of the ring and either be KO'd (soulcalibur)or have the fighting resume in a different area (dead or alive). And stages are more than just a background and a plane to fight on, the music, foreground, context and characters all make up the stage and in story modes for whatever game this serves as an exposition to the fight, however in free play/arcade/multiplayer/other modes/irrelevant, filler story mode fights maybe then could it be described as just a background.
  • Hobogonigal - February 24, 2012 9:08 p.m.

    Foreground, music, background and characters; exactly the same as what is in the non-interactive stages of Smash Bros. which I am trying to say are non- atrocious!!!!!!!! In essence, they are basically a stage (foreground) and a background with music. you are trying to make it seem more complicated than it is. And for the 3D stages let me reassert myself. 3D stages in their most 'BASIC' form which I said earlier (not all 3D stages) are a circle with a background wrapped around the edge. And music if you like. I know that not all 3D fighter levels are like this as they will have some interactivity such as ring-outs etc. as you said however I was saying that this basic type of 3D fighter stage is not atrocious. I was saying that just because a stage does not have interactivity does not make it atrocious however you keep assuming that I am bashing the actual composure of all levels in fighters. No I am not. I am saying that levels do not need interactivity to make them interesting and you keep going off at a tangent by assuming that I think stages in fighters are simple! Maybe you might actually realise all of what I am saying instead of selectively choosing bits and pieces and creating an argument from there. This all looks wrapped up to me now, I don't think infestedandy really wants all of our posts to be covering his recent activity... unless of course taokaka, you want us to go for it and try to dominate this whole page of the comments.
  • taokaka - February 24, 2012 9:37 p.m.

    My aim is simple, have an argument that spans multiple pages, days and languages. So here goes, kamu gemuk dan buaya juga kamu hanya gunakan saya buat seks. saya kecewa karena kamu tidak suka panggung blazblue yang perkelahain 2d main komputer. Now then back to what I was trying to get at, you seem to change your opinion on stages regularly firstly you were defending the interactive levels of smash bros but the wording seemed like you were attacking the non-interactive stages of street fighter, then you were defending them then you said "I know you absolutely love BlazBlue and I know that a lot of time and effort goes into creating the stages but how are they nothing but a 2D plane with a different background?" which to me sounds like you are attacking them and now you defend 3d fighters stages. I am confused by your arguments.
  • Hobogonigal - February 24, 2012 11:15 p.m.

    'These stages are great and are not 'atrocious'...levels are simply a 2D plane with a different background each time so I assume most of Street Fighter 4's levels are 'atrocious' as well?' I was comparing the non-interactive levels of both Smash Bros and Street Fighter and showing that if they are based off the same concept then they can't both be 'atrocious'. Mungkin lu bodoh sekali dan tidak mengerti apa yang gue katakan dan oleh karena itu, pendapat lu tidak baik dan gila sekali. Oh yah, saya akan gunakan lu buat seks tetapi tidak hari ini. Juga lu tidak mempunyai banyak pengalaman di bidang 2D fighter karena lu cuma tau melumat tombol tombol. So to turn your argument around, I never insulted street fighter I only said that its levels were non-interactive and even though this is true I did not consider them atrocious. I was always defending the levels of street fighter. I was not attacking the stages of Blazblue and I said that 'they nothing but a 2D plane with a different background.' This is inherently true however of course you added in the obvious info that a stage is not complete without characters and music. I mean come on! That was obvious. I then continued to say in my next comment 'Foreground, music, background and characters; exactly the same as what is in the non-interactive stages of Smash Bros. which I am trying to say are non- atrocious!!!!!!!!' and now you say that I am attacking Blazblue and 2D fighters? Did you even read my last comment? 3D fighters. I never even started the argument about 3D fighters... You said that I hurt the feelings of 3D fighters or something like that so I replied by saying that they are basically in the 2D plane with moving camera angles. To further prove my point when you disagreed with this I said '3D fighters are in their basic form a square with four walls as the background which are constantly seen from a 2D plane'. You then attacked the fact that I said the word square so I had to modify what I said to '3D stages in their most 'BASIC' form... are a circle with a background wrapped around the edge. And music if you like.' The action is still in a 2D plane and with a background as I said from the start. I never attacked or defended 3D fighters, you just brought them up so I had to define them to show that I never attacked them in the first place. If you are confused it is probably because you are not reading all of what I have to say and seem to be creating your own arguments. Taokaka e grasso. Taokaka e brutto. Taokaka è un grande noob e non sanno come giocare videogiochi. Arrivederci.
  • taokaka - February 24, 2012 11:52 p.m.

    oh getting into Italian now are we, well here is some Japanese, kissama baka and that is the extent of my knowledge of insulting people in Japanese. Also in my last comment I acknowledged that you may not have meant to insult street fighter and 2d fighters in your comment from 18 and a half hours ago but the wording gave off that impression hence I used the words "SEEMED like you were attacking..." past tense. However you did say "but how are they nothing but a 2D plane with a different background?" but now you have admitted your mistake and we can agree that well designed fighting stages are fun. Finally seeing as you are addressing me, a superior being I would expect you to use the correct farewell which is arrivedella. Sayonara
  • Hobogonigal - February 25, 2012 12:26 a.m.

    How dare you insult me in Japanese with words that are so filled with evil that three internet translators cannot decipher their hideous meanings. Yes well designed fighting stages are fun. I should only have addressed you as a superior if we were talking about your unmatched brilliance in chemistry however we are talking about videogames so really you should refer to me as comrade. Вы - сыгранная станция noob, Большой N должен управлять навсегда! водка водки водки до свидания
  • taokaka - February 25, 2012 12:54 a.m.

    "You - the played station noob, Big N should operate for ever! Vodka of vodka of vodka" huh? what is with this vodka of vodka of vodka, is it your new catch phrase?? Anyway you couldn't translate mine probably because kisama is the rudest way of saying you so I called you an idiot but I did it even more rudely than normal. and to top it all of, 己恰醜.
  • Hobogonigal - February 25, 2012 1:07 a.m.

    No it is not my catchphrase, it is just that because I had written in Russian I thought it was necessary to finish in an overly stereotypical way. The reason I couldn't translate your Japanese was because you spelled it as 'kissama' first however you then spelled it in your last comment as 'kisama'. Maybe you should either learn how to type or how to properly speak crude Japanese. þú ert stór spilaði stöð pönk og ætti að gefa Vita til mín. kveðja api
  • taokaka - February 25, 2012 1:23 a.m.

    "you are a big play punk base and should be given to me Know." Wow you have just changed my life with your wise words, all I have to say is Non de via reddo amet metus, stulti estis et sicut caseum odor. P.S. I wounder what a bad translation of a bad translation sounds like so omnia pertinent ad basim.
  • Hobogonigal - February 25, 2012 1:43 a.m.

    'Not about road to repeat amet fear , foolishly are and as cheese odor.' Wow you really topped my advice. You must be a level 100 life-changing taxidriver if you are able to convince me so fully like that. P.s. bad translation = to pertain to to the act of kissing. ummm.... ok. 011010000110000101110011001000000110000101101110011110010110111101101110011001010010000001110100011011110110110001100100001000000111100101101111011101010010000001110100011010000110000101110100001000000111100101101111011101010010000001110011011010000110111101110101011011000110010000100000011001110110100101110110011001010010000001111001011011110111010101110010001000000111011001101001011101000110000100100000011101000110111100100000011011010110010100111111 01101110011011110110111101100010
  • Hobogonigal - February 25, 2012 1:44 a.m.

    hmm thats a bit bad, my binary went off the page. Maybe you should chase it?
  • infestedandy - February 24, 2012 1:37 p.m.

    I didn't say that all of the stages were terrible did I? Seriously, I understand how passionate you are about this game and such but I can't believe you're so blind to the upgrades they could make. I've never said the game was awful and I never degraded it to the point where people just shouldn't bother. Your vision is clouded by your love for the game and while I find that commendable in some ways, your arguments are poor do to that nature. You don't see a way they could have benefited from tuning up each character so they don't play in a similar way? I'm sure you have a good argument for getting rid of Mewtwo as well. Regardless, I hope they learn from their mistakes and the next game comes out even better with an actual working online mode.
  • Hobogonigal - February 24, 2012 6:59 p.m.

    You didn't say all the stages were terrible but you did say that some were atrocious without saying why and this annoyed me and made your argument sound poor. However I do agree about the online mode, hopefully the new structure of the 3DS and Wii U can help solve this... Mewtwo was a cool character but tbh I prefer Lucario as his power increases as my damage increases. Sorry I was getting worked up about it but it was because you were saying things and weren't backing it up with reasons. Wow, we might actually be able to move on now. We almost had a whole comments page there between Taokaka, yourself and I!
  • taokaka - February 22, 2012 5:09 a.m.

    I agree and disagree, while I'm no expert on smash bros I feel confident enough saying that you are right in saying that the characters not being deep is bullshit but then saying that they are twice as deep as other fighting game characters may be true for horrible, useless fighting games but it just isn't true for most fighting games. Each game has its own unique elements that are exclusive to that franchise and make those games "deep" therefore saying one is deeper than another is just wrong, I could even try and argue that the digimon rumble arena series is the deepest fighting game series ever and would I be right? Who knows.

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