Skip to main content
Background
Welcome to GamesRADAR+ Community !
Hi ,

Your membership journey starts here.

Keep exploring and earning more as a member.

MY ACCOUNT

Badge picture
Earn your first badge
Read 1 article to unlock your first badge.
Keep earning badges
Explore ways to get more involved as a member.
Latest Games News

Latest Games News

Breaking gaming news and updates

Read Now
Latest Games Reviews

Latest Games Reviews

Expert verdicts on the newest releases

Read Now

See what you’ve unlocked.

Explore your membership benefits.

Explore
Member Exclusives

Stay Ahead with GamesRadar+

Get the biggest gaming news, reviews, and releases straight to your inbox.

Explore

Sign Out
GamesRadar+ GamesRadar+
US EditionUS CA EditionCanada UK EditionUK AU EditionAustralia
Sign in
  • View Profile
  • Sign out
  • Games
    • Game Insights
      • Games News
      • Games Features
      • Games Reviews
      • Games Guides
      • Big in 2026
      • Big Preview
      • Future Games Show
      • Golden Joystick Awards
    • Genres
      • Action Games
      • RPGs
      • Action RPGs
      • Adventure Games
      • Third Person Shooters
      • FPS Games
    • Platforms
      • PS5
      • Xbox Series X
      • PC
      • Nintendo Switch
      • Nintendo Switch 2
      • Tabletop Gaming
    • Franchises
      • Grand Theft Auto
      • Pokemon
      • Assassin's Creed
      • Monster Hunter
      • Fortnite
      • Cyberpunk
      • Red Dead
      • The Elder Scrolls
      • The Sims
  • Entertainment
    • TV Shows
      • TV News
      • TV Reviews
      • Anime Shows
      • Sci-Fi Shows
      • Superhero Shows
      • Animated Shows
      • Marvel TV Shows
      • Star Wars TV Shows
      • DC TV Shows
    • Movies
      • Movie News
      • Movie Reviews
      • Big Screen Spotlight
      • Superhero Movies
      • Action Movies
      • Anime Movies
      • Sci-Fi Movies
      • Horror Movies
      • Marvel Movies
      • DC Movies
    • Streaming
      • Apple TV Plus
      • Disney Plus
      • Netflix
      • HBO
      • Amazon Prime Video
      • Hulu
    • Comics
      • Marvel Comics
      • DC Comics
  • Hardware
    • Insights
      • Hardware News
      • Hardware Reviews
      • Hardware Features
      • Buying Guides
    • Computing
      • Desktop PCs
      • Laptops
      • Handhelds
    • Peripherals
      • Headsets & Headphones
      • TVs & Monitors
      • Gaming Mice
      • Gaming Keyboards
      • Gaming Chairs
      • Speakers & Audio
    • Accessories & Tech
      • Gaming Controllers
      • Tech
      • SSDs & Hard Drives
      • VR
      • Accessories
      • Retro
  • Deals
    • Toys & Collectibles
    • Lego
    • Dungeons and Dragons
    • Merch
  • Video
    • Videos
    • GR+ Replay - Submit Your Clips
    • G+RLS Podcast
  • Newsletters
    • Quizzes
    • About Us
    • How to pitch to us
    • How we score
    • Newsarama
    • Retro Gamer
  • Home
  • Games
    • View Games
      • Games News
      • Games Features
      • Games Reviews
      • Games Guides
      • Big in 2026
      • Big Preview
      • Future Games Show
      • Golden Joystick Awards
      • Action Games
      • RPGs
      • Action RPGs
      • Adventure Games
      • Third Person Shooters
      • FPS Games
    • Platforms
      • View Platforms
      • PS5
      • Xbox Series X
      • PC
      • Nintendo Switch
      • Nintendo Switch 2
      • Tabletop Gaming
      • Grand Theft Auto
      • Pokemon
      • Assassin's Creed
      • Monster Hunter
      • Fortnite
      • Cyberpunk
      • Red Dead
      • The Elder Scrolls
      • The Sims
  • Entertainment
    • View Entertainment
    • TV Shows
      • View TV Shows
      • TV News
      • TV Reviews
      • Anime Shows
      • Sci-Fi Shows
      • Superhero Shows
      • Animated Shows
      • Marvel TV Shows
      • Star Wars TV Shows
      • DC TV Shows
    • Movies
      • View Movies
      • Movie News
      • Movie Reviews
      • Big Screen Spotlight
      • Superhero Movies
      • Action Movies
      • Anime Movies
      • Sci-Fi Movies
      • Horror Movies
      • Marvel Movies
      • DC Movies
    • Streaming
      • View Streaming
      • Apple TV Plus
      • Disney Plus
      • Netflix
      • HBO
      • Amazon Prime Video
      • Hulu
    • Comics
      • View Comics
      • Marvel Comics
      • DC Comics
  • Hardware
    • View Hardware
      • Hardware News
      • Hardware Reviews
      • Hardware Features
      • Buying Guides
      • Desktop PCs
      • Laptops
      • Handhelds
    • Peripherals
      • View Peripherals
      • Headsets & Headphones
      • TVs & Monitors
      • Gaming Mice
      • Gaming Keyboards
      • Gaming Chairs
      • Speakers & Audio
      • Gaming Controllers
      • Tech
      • SSDs & Hard Drives
      • VR
      • Accessories
      • Retro
  • Deals
    • Toys & Collectibles
    • Lego
    • Dungeons and Dragons
    • Merch
  • Video
    • View Video
    • Videos
    • GR+ Replay - Submit Your Clips
    • G+RLS Podcast
  • Newsletters
    • Quizzes
    • About Us
    • How to pitch to us
    • How we score
    • Newsarama
    • Retro Gamer
Trending
  • BlizzCon 2026
  • Countdown to GTA 6
  • Join our monthly RPG Club
  • Game of the Week
  • G+RLS Podcast
  • GTA 6
  • Best gaming tech
  • RPG Hub
  • Submit your clips. Win prizes
Sign up to the GamesRadar+ Newsletter

Weekly digests, tales from the communities you love, and more


By submitting your information you agree to the Terms & Conditions and Privacy Policy and are aged 16 or over.

You are now subscribed

Your newsletter sign-up was successful


Want to add more newsletters?

GamesRadar+

Every Friday

GamesRadar+

Your weekly update on everything you could ever want to know about the games you already love, games we know you're going to love in the near future, and tales from the communities that surround them.

GTA 6 O'clock

Every Thursday

GTA 6 O'clock

Our special GTA 6 newsletter, with breaking news, insider info, and rumor analysis from the award-winning GTA 6 O'clock experts.

Knowledge

Every Friday

Knowledge

From the creators of Edge: A weekly videogame industry newsletter with analysis from expert writers, guidance from professionals, and insight into what's on the horizon.

The Setup

Every Thursday

The Setup

Hardware nerds unite, sign up to our free tech newsletter for a weekly digest of the hottest new tech, the latest gadgets on the test bench, and much more.

Switch 2 Spotlight

Every Wednesday

Switch 2 Spotlight

Sign up to our new Switch 2 newsletter, where we bring you the latest talking points on Nintendo's new console each week, bring you up to date on the news, and recommend what games to play.

The Watchlist

Every Saturday

The Watchlist

Subscribe for a weekly digest of the movie and TV news that matters, direct to your inbox. From first-look trailers, interviews, reviews and explainers, we've got you covered.

SFX

Once a month

SFX

Get sneak previews, exclusive competitions and details of special events each month!


Join the club

Get full access to premium articles, exclusive features and a growing list of member rewards.


An account already exists for this email address, please log in.
  1. Games
  2. RPGs
  3. Fallout
  4. Fallout 3

RPG veteran Josh Sawyer says Black Isle Studios' stab at Fallout 3 was never going to be made in time: "With the staff we had it would have been at least two years"

News
By Catherine Lewis
Published 29 July 2024

Fallout co-creator Tim Cain had suggested it would take 18 months

When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Here’s how it works.

Fallout 3
(Image credit: Bethesda)
  • Facebook
  • X
  • Pinterest
  • Flipboard
  • Email
Share this article
Join the conversation
Follow us
Add us as a preferred source on Google
Subscribe to our newsletter

Fallout: New Vegas director Josh Sawyer says that Black Isle Studios was never going to complete its second canceled Fallout 3 project in the timeframe that'd been given for it, saying it would have taken "at least" another two years with the team that was available.

Although Fallout 3 is, of course, a game that exists, two attempts at a third Fallout game were made by Black Isle Studios before that final version by Bethesda ever came to be. As revealed in an interview with IGN from 2017, the first actually ended up leading to the creation of the RPG Icewind Dale (on which Sawyer was a designer), but the second, and more widely known attempt was codenamed Van Buren, which was canceled in 2003. 

This decision to cancel Van Buren was apparently fully finalized after Fallout co-creator Tim Cain was brought in to test out the in-progress RPG, and was asked how long he thought it'd take to complete and ship it. Cain suggested 18 months, noting that he didn't think it'd be possible to do it in any faster than 12 months even with a "death march crunch," but was then apparently told by the vice president of Interplay that any answer over six months would have resulted in the game's cancellation. 

Latest Videos FromGamesRadar+
Watch full video here:

In a new thread on Twitter, where Sawyer discusses his "useful skill" of being able to tell when a game won't be completed "with close to 100% accuracy," one Twitter user brings up this story of Cain's consultation on Van Buren. Sawyer responds, confirming that the RPG was never going to be completed in six months, and suggesting that Cain's 18-month estimate may not have been enough, either.

"Honestly his 18 month estimate was optimistic," Sawyer says. "With the staff we had it would have been at least two years [in my opinion.]

You may like
  • Fallout 3 OG Fallout 3 might not have been canceled if its publisher had seen its "really cool demo," dev says
  • Screenshot from Fallout opening cinematic What made the OG Fallout so great is "overlooked" these days, says co-creator Tim Cain
  • Fallout New Vegas Another Fallout was in development at Obsidian before Bethesda pulled the plug, ex-studio lead says

"I don't think Tom French [Fallout 2 programmer] or I had ever suggested nine months was feasible."

It took another five years before a game called Fallout 3 was ever released, even if it was a different one made by different developers. Even if Van Buren never came to be, though, you can at least try out a fan-made version of it as a mod for Fallout 2, called Fallout Yesterday.

Almost 100 modders spent 5 years making Fallout London, an RPG mod so expansive its creators call it "Fallout 4.5."

CATEGORIES
PC Gaming Platforms
Catherine Lewis
Catherine Lewis
Social Links Navigation
Deputy News Editor

I'm GamesRadar+'s Deputy News Editor, working alongside the rest of the news team to deliver cool gaming stories that we love. After spending more hours than I can count filling The University of Sheffield's student newspaper with Pokemon and indie game content, and picking up a degree in Journalism Studies, I started my career at GAMINGbible where I worked as a journalist for over a year and a half. I then became TechRadar Gaming's news writer, where I sourced stories and wrote about all sorts of intriguing topics. In my spare time, you're sure to find me on my Nintendo Switch or PS5 playing through story-driven RPGs like Xenoblade Chronicles and Persona 5 Royal, nuzlocking old Pokemon games, or going for a Victory Royale in Fortnite.

Read more
Fallout 3
Fallout OG Fallout 3 might not have been canceled if its publisher had seen its "really cool demo," dev says
 
 
Screenshot from Fallout opening cinematic
Fallout What made the OG Fallout so great is "overlooked" these days, says co-creator Tim Cain
 
 
Fallout New Vegas
Fallout Another Fallout was in development at Obsidian before Bethesda pulled the plug, ex-studio lead says
 
 
Fallout: New Vegas screenshot shows a ghoul.
Fallout New Fallout game would be "good" for both Obsidian and Bethesda, says former New Vegas creative lead
 
 
Fallout: New Vegas
Fallout Fallout: New Vegas director Josh Sawyer says it was "pure luck" he directed the RPG at Obsidian
 
 
A character in power armor talks to Dogmeat in Fallout 4
Fallout Modders remastering Fallout 3 in Fallout 4 are not bothered by Bethesda's official version
 
 
Latest in Fallout
A black and white picture of the Dragonborn during Skyrim.
The Elder Scrolls Skyrim and Fallout made Bethesda devs feel "safe" from mass layoffs
 
 
Screenshot from Fallout opening cinematic
Fallout What made the OG Fallout so great is "overlooked" these days, says co-creator Tim Cain
 
 
Fallout
Fallout Fallout co-creator says devs should look to "bad games" for inspiration and not just "good" ones
 
 
Fallout 4 character wearing the signature blue and yellow Vault Dweller outfit while standing beside Dogmeat, a German Shepherd dog
Fallout Fallout 4 fans let out as a sigh of relief as Bethesda quadruples the RPG's mod limit in new patch
 
 
Fallout 2 promotional art
Fallout Fallout co-creator says turn-based and real-time games have "loud vocal advocates" devs can't please
 
 
Fallout: New Vegas screenshot showing a a man with short brown hair wielding a massive flame thrower, setting three enemies in the distance ablaze with the weapons
Fallout Bethesda not releasing new Fallout with TV show felt like a "personal" decision, says New Vegas lead
 
 
Latest in News
Wardogs character points weapon at the camera
FPS Games Wardogs studio checks the Steam accounts of their hires to make sure they're "passionate about FPS"
 
 
Wolverine and Mystique lean on a railing on a Madripoor rooftop in Marvel's Wolverine
Action Games New Marvel's Wolverine update makes the game's infamous scent trails "less intense"
 
 
Cloud Strife wearing a serious expression in Final Fantasy 7 Revelation
Final Fantasy Final Fantasy 7 Revelation devs know you "want to see more of other characters" aside from Cloud
 
 
Palworld pal Cattiva looks sad in official animated short Finders Keepers.
Survival Games Palworld lead thought one of Pocketpair's most iconic Pals would "fade into the background"
 
 
Fable
RPGs After Forza Horizon, Fable devs wanted to prove "we could cut it in a different genre," lead says
 
 
Team Fortress 2 Scout in a hat and headset smiling
FPS Games Valve devs "can't believe we get away" with such small updates for Team Fortress 2, ex-writer says
 
 
LATEST ARTICLES
  1. Mario and Cappy in Super Mario Odyssey
    1
    Late Nintendo president Satoru Iwata never wanted tons of Mario and Zelda sequels
  2. 2
    I never want to play the best-written Blood of Dawnwalker mission ever again
  3. 3
    Here's how to watch this year's PC Gaming Show Tokyo Direct
  4. 4
    Project Zeta is not your daddy's MOBA (or your brother's hero shooter)
  5. 5
    Wardogs studio checks the Steam accounts of their hires to make sure they're "passionate about FPS"

GamesRadar+ is part of Future US Inc, an international media group and leading digital publisher. Visit our corporate site.

Add as a preferred source on Google Add as a preferred source on Google
  • About us
  • Contact Future's experts
  • Terms and conditions
  • Privacy policy
  • Cookies policy
  • Advertise with us
  • Review guidelines
  • Write for us
  • Accessibility statement
  • Careers

© Future US, Inc. Full 7th Floor, 130 West 42nd Street, New York, NY 10036.

Please login or signup to comment

Please wait...