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RadioRadar E3 2013 podcast: Day Three

Day three? Day three. The third day of the E3 is behind us, and we're exhausted. But that didn't stop us from recording our longest E3 podcast yet, complete with poop jokes and about 30-minutes straight of laughter after a moment that will go down in RadioRadar--nah--PODCASTING history.

Hosts: Hollander Cooper, Tom Magrino, Ryan Taljonick, Henry Gilbert, Greg Henninger
Intro song by Danny Baranowsky


72 comments

  • PCgamer77 - June 16, 2013 11:23 p.m.

    If you guys like multi-player game, check out tankranger.com. It is free and easy to download. It is pretty addictive.
  • pokepark7 - June 14, 2013 7:52 p.m.

    wow you guys i couldn't even focused on the podcast because of the laughing thanx alot. :D
  • LordCmdrStryker - June 14, 2013 7:50 a.m.

    I guess we better stop selling used books, movies, cars, and houses, because nobody's making them new any more. And screw Ebay and Craigslist. Only criminals use those sites.
  • winner2 - June 13, 2013 8:40 p.m.

    I want the next TES game to have a master level destruction spell called "rage of the gamer" - 2 fire damage and a looooooong ass sound effect
  • g1rldraco7 - June 13, 2013 5:55 p.m.

    Good thing there weren't any lit candles in the room. Also was Greg grumpy because he sounded grumpy, I hope he gets enough sleep.
  • vent - June 13, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    Yeah I remember when businesses were attacked because they dared to warn their employees of what would happen with Obamacare.
  • BladedFalcon - June 13, 2013 11:31 a.m.

    Okay, look, I've talked about this a hundred times before, so I'm going to spare the big speech this time... But regarding used games? Stop fucking assuming that everything works the way you do in your country, stop assuming that gamestop is an ubiquitous entity that exists everywhere, and affects everyone. Not everyone has to deal with gamestop, what's more, a lot of us that live in other countries still can rely on brick and mortar stores to make reasonable and fair trades in which, yes, i actually DO always trade my used games to get NEW and 60 dollar value games over here. (Except that here in Mexico, a game doesn't really cost 60 dollars, but more like 80... So y'know.) I guess that, as always, is too much to ask you fucking privileged U.S. Citizens to take a step back, and think of how things work in other countries, par for the course I suppose. But you guys spoke with such hubris, and in a such a douchebag way, assuming that you knew everything that was going on everywhere, and you obviously don't. You don't like the used games market? fine, that's your decision. But don't you dare to think you know what's best for everybody, specially if none of you have ever have had to live in a country such as Mexico, let alone other countries such as El Salvador or Ukraine. Come here, work for a month for the wages the average person here does, THEN I want to see you talking shit about selling and trading to get extra money.
  • GOD - June 13, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    Take a deep breath. It's implied that they are only talking from an American perspective because they are American journalists who live in America. It's unfair to get mad at them for not discussing how it works in other countries, when the only way to have a comparable amount of insight into other countries would be to live their. They also weren't saying that the used game market going away would be best for everybody. Just like they were saying they don't want all Gamestop employees to just become unemployed. They said that if they had to choose one or the other, they'd choose developers over the used game market and that if the used game market went away (with Gamestop being the biggest factor of that in America) that developers would ultimately benefit. Also even if you hypothetically trade in your games and use that to buy new games 100% of the time, you're still helping to fill the market with copies of games that can be purchased that will lead to no money going to the developers. Just like you said it's harder money wise for people who aren't in America, so think of the developers that don't live in America, like the Metro: Last Light team that worked in a ridiculous environment and with a fraction of the usual budget for games. Now think of how it feels for them when they worked this hard on this game to have someone else, regardless of their place in the world, to buy it used instead of new and give them no compensation for the game they almost literally slaved over.
  • GR_RyanTaljonick - June 13, 2013 3:09 p.m.

    ^ We often speak in generalities that don't take other parts of the world into consideration simply because we only know this part of the world. I don't have a clue as to how things work elsewhere, and personally, I am sympathetic to those who just can't afford to buy new games 100% of the time. I get that, I've been there. It's a double edged sword scenario. On the one hand, used sales let people experience a far larger volume of awesome games; on the other, it can (and does) affect the companies that make those games in a negative way. We don't mean our comments to sound insensitive toward those who rely on used games, and I won't deny that a lot of what we say is pure speculation (I'm not a business dude), but we certainly appreciate our listeners as well as this awesome industry that allows us all to experience some truly incredible things.
  • BladedFalcon - June 13, 2013 4:07 p.m.

    Okay, fair enough, but when you guys plainly say shit like "when choosing between saving retail or creative people... Fuck retail. Also, fucked used games in general because it's killing the industry, and we totally know that" I'm sorry, but you ARE going to piss people off, and look, I get it, you guys think and do things different than I do, that's fine, i respect that. But just as I do that, you then attacking the way I DO business, and calling me a blight on the industry? well how am I supposed to feel about that? And yes, you guys aren't business people, no worries, neither am I. But try using a bit more common sense, and don't just repeat what Publisher's PR keep prattling about? Again, like I said to Cooper below, the used game market has existed for over 20 years or more, and has not the industry grow a TON even with that? And yes, costs are increasing, but then, you have indie titles, or even mid-tier titles that are amazing experiences, and don't cost nearly as much for features that aren't nearly that valuable for the game itself. Ryan, you're a Dark Souls fan as I understand it, right? So you agree that game was fantastic, it looked great, it played great, it was huge! It never felt like a cheaply made game, right? And despite the fact that it was made AND marketed for a very niche audience, it sold enough to make a pretty damn good profit. 2 million copies was considered a huge success for them. Whereas you get games like RE6, Tomb Raider, and Dead Space 3, which are all much more linear, smaller games, and yet apparently, fir none of them selling 5 millions copies was nearly enough... So who's to blame for that? us consumers? trade market? Or bloated budgets and outrageous expectations? Why should WE be expected to change and bend over the will of publishers when THEY are the ones that have a skewed image of reality and how to make business? Also, both you and PR people always love to use the "developers" and the creative forces behind the games as the victims, and the ones affected by used games sales... But you guys MUST know that the money goes TROUGH the publisher, not the developer. And unless you're a big name like Levine or Kojima, chances are that whatever your game sells, developers most liely get fixed pay rates, while it's the publishers, and the execs, that get the royalties of what was made ultimately. I'm totally fine with paying full price to developer DIRECTLY. Which is why I heavily supports kickstarters, or indie games that have no publisher. But you guys must realize that when you're defending the "developer" who you're really defending, are the publishers. Y'know, the assholes that don't make the game but nevertheless control the property, neuter it, or make it subject to executive decisions from people that know shit about videogames. Yeah, please, do keep defending those guys.
  • DeeEss - June 13, 2013 4:24 p.m.

    The problem I have with your seemingly unanimous support of the game industry's assesment of the situation is that you are supporting a system that will take away customer rights. The rights to use and sell on a product that they've purchased. Seeing as you're journalists, I find it quite dissapointing that you'd do that. Games publishers are extremely good at hiding behind the market as soon as they are critisized about the games they publish. "Our big games need to be like Call of Duty, or else they won't be profitable." That's fair. I'm sure that's true. But when the market swings the other way, when it is the customer's interests that are served by the market, like it is with used games, they attack that very market that has been shielding them from critizism. I don't buy used games. Personally, I woulnd't be affected if used games sales were somehow abolished. I'm sure the games industry suffers because of it and needs to find solutions to that problem. But that you, dear GR editors, would support a solution that would cripple basic consumer rights is to me, with all the contextual and proportional adjustments to the following statement, appaling.
  • ChaoticGenius - June 13, 2013 8:37 p.m.

    Well Ryan you are one of the few from GamesRadar staff that seems to understand our point of view as consumers with a limited budget, because if you see how Cooper was responding to my reasoning it seemed like he REALLY doesn't like the used game market, and honestly, the analogies he was using to explain his point of view were just ridiculous. It was as if I was talking to some greedy EA executive, or worse, Cliffy B.
  • BladedFalcon - June 13, 2013 4:19 p.m.

    Except that when they say "developers". Who they really mean are Publishers. You mention Metro, for example. Think a bit, who do you think sees the direct revenue per copy of the game? The developer of Metro? Or Deep Silver, it's publisher? Do you really think the developers will get paid more if the game sells 4 million copies instead of 3? Do you seriously believe that each of those employees, the coders, the programmers, get a raise for every extra copy they sell? If you say yes to any of these questions, please let me know in which magic world you're living, because I'd love to join you. The fact of the matter, is that whenever we buy a copy, the people that get to see most of the money, isn't the true creative power behind the games. It's the publishers you know, EA, Activision, Square Enix, Ubisoft. And those companies? they have shareholders, they have execs, guys in suits that care nothing but filling their pockets even bigger. In the podcast they said that the game makers didn't live luxuriously, and they're right, they don't, because it's the publishers, the Bobby Kotticks, the Yves Gillemots, that do. If policies meant to kill used games made sure that the money paid for those games really WENT to the developer directly, and not to microsoft, and not to ubisoft, or Activision. Then sure, I could understand that. But that's not how it is, it's not how it works. It publishers that are bloated and need and want more and more outrageous amount of money to keep their execs happy that's fucking up the industry, NOT the used games market. The used games market has existed not for just this medium, but for many others, and it has always worked fine. Being demonized in the way it has been for this industry is nothing but a marketing push that publishers and first party companies have done because they want to control even MORE of their money. So yeah... fat chance for me feeling any sympathy for those.
  • GOD - June 13, 2013 6:23 p.m.

    Even if the developers don't see a cent more from more game sales and that all goes to the publishers, those developers won't have a job after that game unless the publish found that game profitable enough. If I front you the money for a stack of blank CDs and a sound studio because you say you can sell enough CDs to make it worth both our whiles then ok. You get the money from me this time. But when you sell some CDs and then people copy them to their computers and then sell CDs to other people that cuts into my profits. So now I'm out that much money and barely made back what I used. Don't expect me to financially back you again. Whether you like it or not, when you buy a new game you're voting for which developers you want to stay open, and when buy or sell a used game not only are you not supporting that games developers but you're also removing money from the market (and yes the publishers) which would've gone to publish more games. If you buy a used game that is a AAA title with a bloated budget, you don't have the right to criticize them because you're only making it harder for that to be financially feasible for them. No one forced you to buy that game. If I don't have money I don't buy games. I don't buy used either. I'd rather help the system of gaming that I love.
  • BladedFalcon - June 13, 2013 7:10 p.m.

    Again, what part of me buying all the games I play new didn't you understand? I support the industry one way or the other, and again, yes, I trade or sell my games, but that lets me buy games NEW that otherwise I'd never touch. And i'm sorry, I have no use or need or want to play most games I've finished, so why the fuck should I let them waste away in my room unused? It's stupid and I'd rather make use of them by giving me an extra source of income that allows me to play more games. It's kind of tiresome to hear people like you using a "mightier than thou" attitude in this. Specially because, again, this industry has had a used games market for FOREVER, everyone used to do fine before, and IF they handled their business properly, they should be able to do so now. Read below my example concerning Dark Souls if you need a more expanded explanation. Regarding studios that get closed because a publisher couldn't manage their money well? that's the publisher's fault, not ours. Furthermore, those people that get fired in all likelihood can probably just have a better job overall if they start creating their own studio, and publish games digitally or via kickstarter. And THAT way, they'll get all the money they need and deserve. It's what many have done already, and it's honestly for the better of the industry. Lastly, full disclaimer: Yes, if there's eventually a future in which the industry is dominated by developer that self publisher, and the huge corporate publishers are gone? THEN I will be completely fine by going full digital and killing the used game market.
  • GOD - June 13, 2013 8:02 p.m.

    As I said, even if you don't buy used games when you trade in your used, you're adding those games into the used market for others to buy. You act like the games industry will be completely unaffected, but think of what happened to the brick and mortar record stores that now no longer exist. Just because an industry still exists and grows doesn't mean it's not being hurt. I'm not acting "mightier than thou" I'm just saying you have a choice. This isn't essential to your living and you do have the luxury of waiting or choosing to purchase games that will give you more playtime for your money. Maybe one day stores will let you retire a game to be recycled and give you credit towards new games, while not adding that copy to the used market but right now it's not that way. The used market hurts developers. Don't get angry at them for not knowing how the market is in Mexico, unless you accept that a developer deserves to get mad at you for acting like you know how much of a loss their content can take and have it still be ok for them.
  • GOD - June 13, 2013 8:41 p.m.

    The used game market for gamers is a luxury, for Gamestop employees it's part of their job although they could work at any retail outlet doing relatively the same, but for game developers the used game market is a constant trial that interferes with their lively-hood. Also consider that if the used game market was smaller or didn't exist, new game prices wouldn't have to be as high. A new game is $60 because it's budget is was X amount of dollars and the company expects X amount of people to buy it new. If the number of people who bought it new was higher than to reach the same amount of profit the price per game could be lower. It's like the ridiculous costs for health care in America. Because some people can't afford certain medical care but the doctor can't turn them away, the price to see a doctor for those who can pay is outrageous since the doctor needs to recover the lost revenue from those who didn't pay for their treament. I had some minor work done on two toes where the doctor saw me for maybe 30 minutes, and only once, yet the bill was ten times more than whatever your highest guess would've been. The main difference though is that that is medicine so turning people away is a morality issue. With games your justifying your way of doing things by acting like whatever happens it's either the publishers fault if something goes wrong or the publisher is already making enough money because clearly all publishers are just individuals without any financial concerns, families, employees, etc. that are completely unaffected by any monetary losses.
  • ChaoticGenius - June 13, 2013 9:10 p.m.

    First of all, the used market is NOT a luxury it is a RIGHT that not only happens on this industry but on MANY others and has been for MANY MANY years. Second, you and I both know that prices of retail games will NEVER go down. and Third, you are acting as if people ONLY used the used game market to buy games, and with THAT i do not agree, but im sure that only very few people actually do that, like BladedFalcon and I are saying, we use the used game market but we also support the industry by buying new games from time to time AND by supporting indies through kickstarters and just buying their games in general.
  • GOD - June 13, 2013 9:24 p.m.

    I didn't say the used game market was a luxury. I said buying "a new game" was a luxury, and buying any game for that matter is a luxury. I never said the used game market was a luxury though. Why can't the price of retail games go down? They obviously won't right now because the used game market is as strong as ever, but it most certainly could. The price of a PS3 at launch was $599. The price of a PS4 at launch will be $399. Clearly they plan to make their money by selling more consoles at a much lower price this time, because selling at a higher price meant much lower sales numbers, so much so that it became evident that the price was too high. The used game market is a big influence on new retail copies. If you consider the Online Pass scenario in reverse, increased used game sales would mean lower prices for those who buy new because the companies only went out of their way on the online passes because of how much they were losing on used games. What does it matter what people use the used game market for? Say you sold your games to get enough money to barely make your rent that week. Yes it was obviously the smart thing for you to do in that situation, but if one it still hurt the industry regardless of what's going on in your life, and two maybe it wasn't the best idea to put so much into games in the first place if you're so strapped for cash. Games are an expensive hobby, so unfortunately if you can't afford as many games maybe you shouldn't buy as many (not speaking to you specifically, I'm using you in a general sense). Sure you can sell your old ones to get around the costs but that's when you're working around the system to fuel your own DESIRES, but not you're not doing it out of necessity.
  • GOD - June 13, 2013 9:27 p.m.

    Damn, I meant "increased new game sales" in the beginning of the third paragraph.

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