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51 comments

  • ObliqueZombie - October 11, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    Jesus CHRIST thank you. Very well written piece. This community of mine can be THE MOST vile, ignorant, insensitive bunch I've ever, ever--EVER--had the displeasure of communing with. And yet I love every single one of them. I always scroll down to the comments to see what they're saying about what game, and it fills me with joy to see discussions and friendly debates and spirit-boosting comments. And yet on the other hand, I get... angry when I see the opposite. Why are they being a dick to that person? Why do they act like their opinion is fact and shoot down everyone who says otherwise? I'm very glad someone came along and put into words to thousands of people the very problem with our community. There's no unity or sense of friendship or bonding. It's just various sides of people who agree on one certain thing or game or another insulting the others who think otherwise. And don't even get me started on IGN's Beyond comment section. Are people STILL making fun of another person's console choice? Really?
  • BladedFalcon - October 11, 2013 1:44 p.m.

    Hey, while we're on this topic, I am aware you've developed a dislike for the way I've behaved in the past, and I accept that I HAVE acted like a huge jerk before, to you included. So I wanted to sincerely apologize. Even when we obviously don't agree with a lot of stuff, I do respect you as a fellow gamer, and I'd like a chance to engage in conversations again. Once again, I know I was an asshole in the past, and I won't hold it against you if you still don't wish to speak to me again. Still, think we could start over? ^^;I promise to make a genuine change to not deride you or act superior, and feel free to call me on my bullshit the second I recede... deal? (:
  • ObliqueZombie - October 13, 2013 12:50 p.m.

    BladedFalcon... this is hands-down the most sincere two paragraphs I've ever read in a comment section on a website. I do accept your apologize. I cannot even begin to tell you how appreciative I am and how happy this makes me. :') I absolutely would love to start over. You have one of the biggest presences I've ever seen on this site, and I've been year for almost seven years and have had this account for almost five. I hope we have many wonderful discussions.
  • BladedFalcon - October 13, 2013 4:01 p.m.

    Awesome! Thanks a lot man! ^^ I appreciate the chance, and absolutely! Looking forward to talking again in the future! :D
  • GamesRadarCollanderCooper - October 11, 2013 12:59 p.m.

    What the fuck is Bissell talking about? There's a TON of book snobs out there. I've had people look at me funny just because I told them I like Chuck Palahniuk novels.
  • GR_RyanTaljonick - October 11, 2013 1:06 p.m.

    Hi, big fan of Chuck Palahniuk here. Still think Invisible Monsters is my favorite.
  • GamesRadarCollanderCooper - October 11, 2013 2:11 p.m.

    I know I'm in the minority, but I'm more partial to Lullaby
  • GR_RyanTaljonick - October 11, 2013 3:48 p.m.

    Reaaaally? Lullaby was good. Haven't been able to get back into his stuff much ever since Snuff. I've read everything he's had published up through Damned.
  • sleepyMexican45 - October 11, 2013 2:18 p.m.

    Porno <3
  • sleepyMexican45 - October 11, 2013 2:21 p.m.

    Wait, thats Irvine Welsh. Any Welsh fans here?
  • db1331 - October 11, 2013 1:19 p.m.

    Exactly. I know several people who won't read or watch Game of Thrones because it's all over the place, or just roll their eyes when they hear Breaking Bad mentioned, simply because it's wildly popular. Games are NOT the only medium people do this with. As far as Beyond, I have a PS3, and I wouldn't play it if it were a free download. It looks bad. I formed this opinion as soon as it was announced that Cage was making another "Immersive storytelling" game. Every review I've seen on it has confirmed my assumption. I don't need to give it a chance before I form an opinion of it. If you read somewhere that Nicholas Cage is going to be starring in another Ghost Rider movie, can you not instantly know that movie will suck? You don't need to see the movie, or even a trailer. You should just know. But when you apply that same logic to video games, people get all "YOU HAVEN'T EVEN PLAYED IT SO YOUR OPINION IS MEANINGLESS!" I've never eaten shit before, but I expect it doesn't taste very good.
  • GR_SophiaTong - October 11, 2013 2:15 p.m.

    Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but the point was that you can't have an informed discussion about anything if you have no experience with it. I can't talk about Beyond until I finished it. Even if some parts of it are terrible, it's something I wouldn't be able to discuss until I've played and experienced it for myself. I've been surprised many times before, so you don't know what you could be missing out on if you're quick to judge. And some shitty games are worth checking out. If anything it helps you appreciate the good ones. :)
  • Outofmanyone - October 11, 2013 3:48 p.m.

    I agree, especially since some "shitty games" have excellent soundtracks..
  • larkan - October 11, 2013 7:58 p.m.

    You can have an informed discussion on things if you have no experience with it. Want a good example? Watch a Uwe Boll movie. You know from that point on never to watch one of his movies again.
  • VideoKilledTheRadioStar - October 11, 2013 7:09 p.m.

    Book snobs? Absolutely. I've never exactly met a *violent* book snob though. I'm sure they exist, the Internet is an interesting place haha. Other mediums though: The Wire debates often become curse fests, lots of people seem to be jumping on the Breaking Bad hate train, Dexter...doesn't compare at all to the other two, but debates tend to be incredibly stupid anyway.
  • thinkerluchho - October 11, 2013 12:36 p.m.

    the charm of "beyond" is in the gamer's taste. some will love it, others will hate it. some will like the story, others won't. personally, although shawshank redemption is a great film according to general public, i didn't fall under it's spell.
  • Shuuda - October 11, 2013 12:09 p.m.

    "perhaps film and games will start sharing more than just terminology. Wouldn’t that be awesome?" No, it wouldn't. Don't you understand how much of a horrendous thought that is? People shouldn't talk about games as though they're films, but instead talk about them as games. Treating games and films as similar would be no different than talking about books and flims, or paintings and films as though they were similar. If games are to be taken seriously, then they need to be seen and developed as its own unique medium, rather than one that constantly defers to another form. Gaming has something special that books and film don't, and I don't think David Cage understand that. His games seem determined to squander potential more and more. You make the assumption that innovation is automatically deserving of praise. Not all innovation is benefical to gaming, and such cases need to scrutinised carefully. Innovation needs to be tempered with function, conpetence, and an understanding of the medium. Yes, it's never good to be rabid, as many gamers are, but sugarcoating our opinions isn't the right action either. From what I've heard and read, BTS doesn't sound like it's innovating at all. It does nothing that a film could not have done better. If anything, it sounds like a step back from Heavy Rain in terms of gameplay. The direction that David Cage wants gaming to proceed in is one I'm opposed to. His beliefs that games need more polygons to be emotional, and that games should be made more like films, are "innovations" that I believe are damaging to the medium. So long as he continues down this path I will think nothing but poorly of him. He seems motivated by his wish to be film director, and I suspect that he does not have the medium's best interests at heart. Perhaps BTS appeals to pretentious game journos who like to appear intelligent by gushing over "deep plots" and "emotional characters". I on the other hand, can see games like this for what they truly are; something that doesn't know how to be an emotional game, and so tries to be an emotional film instead, and then does a poor job of that. It's not just BTS, but a characteristic of AAA gaming on the whole, which is why I've grown so disinterested in them.
  • BladedFalcon - October 11, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    Aaaaand you completely missed the point of the article, wonderful -.- No one was sugarcoating anything here, and this was written not so much as a defense of Beyond, but as a request to instead of immediately judging something... Actually play it first and then give constructive criticism after? Instead, the first thing you go and do is to attack the creator of the game and the game itself without having even played it, and thus not really knowing what it does wrong or right... Regardless of whether you agree with the author of this article or not, the fact alone that you're judging something without really knowing about it, SHOULD send you some red flags that maybe you're doing something wrong here. Besides, if you're just not willing to give it a try, then just say "it's not my cup of tea, not interested in those kinds of experiences" and move on? you're already voting with your wallet that way, so why go on and attack something you don't know about?
  • cricket0 - October 11, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    See, you know exactly how it has to be, you gotta know what your yelling about before you open your mouth. I went onto the Metacritic page recently, and I saw a sizable amount of negative reviews. At first I thought, "man, its a shame these guys dont enjoy the game as much as I do. Lets see what they have to say, perhaps it will help me see what the game does wrong that I haven't noticed yet.". Yet, lo and behold, more than half of the scores on the negative page were 0. 0!! I dont care how much you dislike a game, there is no way that Beyond is possible a 0, cause that would imply that nothing at all was done right. And, to make matters more ridiculous, most of the user reviewers who gave it a 0 had never reviewed another game. If simple logic is to be applied, even though I technically have no solid proof of this, people went and made brand new accounts just to give this game a 0 and lower the overall score. Would anybody who has actually played the entire game go and give it multiple 0's? I dont think so. Im not saying it has to have positive scores, but even the worst games ever have something about them which would allow it a score of 1. I played Legendary, thought it was garbage, but some of the enemy designs were creative, so I would give it a 1 if anything. My point is, to respond to what you said, that its just insanely ignorant to start judging something that you have no personal knowledge in, especially if its absurdly negative.
  • BladedFalcon - October 11, 2013 1:51 p.m.

    Completely agree, and well, you just explained the reason why I can never take user scores seriously. Any time people go to such extremes... specially SO quickly after a game has been released, it seem pretty clear that person is exaggerating, and most likely has never even played the game, they just want to affect the score so it can closer match with what they personally want it to be, regardless of whether it deserves it or not. And it should be said that this problem happens not just when people are overly negative, but also on the opposite side of the spectrum. People are just as likely to immediately crown a 10 to a game even before playing it, and shouting down anyone that disagrees.
  • cricket0 - October 11, 2013 9:01 p.m.

    Exactly. On a somewhat similar note, there is only one thing i hate more than people who blindly hate something without even experiencing it: People who HAVE experienced it, but give baseless or flat out nonsense critiques. For example, if somebody was to review Toy Story, and they said that they didnt like it because they never explained how the toys can talk and move around, that would be a critique that is baseless. A lot of people have been judging this game based on what it is trying to do, instead of what it is failing to do. The reviewer on this site did a good job, stating that he think they were trying for good character interaction but failed, instead of saying, perhaps, that its a bad game because you cant skip cutscenes. The first on makes sense, because its showing a failure, a flaw that was missed. The second one is crap, because the game is trying to be cinematic, and skipping cutscenes would defeat the purpose. Kinda long winded, but long story short, most of the negative reviews I have seen have the major gripe of it being too cinematic, when thats its goal, thus I get nothing out of the review. Its just somebody who doesnt like that game, and just blurts out stuff that sounds to them like reasonable critiques. However, when you try to justify disliking a cinematic game for being cinematic, thats like hating a cyclist because they like biking. Its the vocal equivalent of saying "I dont like it cause I dont like it, so there!"
  • TanookiMan - October 11, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    Good article, I totally agree, particularly with the "It's up to us to move the industry forward." I think that includes the entire industry, including publishers, games journalists, etc. As gamers, we should focus on less vitriol in general. More honest (and civil) discussions can only make things better. :)
  • Waldo - October 11, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    Good read. I hope I haven't been too guilty over the years. I do keep supporting Nintendo because I like some of their innovative attempts, with 3D and motion control (cmon Holodeck!) and I haven't crapped on the Kinect. I'm sure Sony contributes too, but they're a little out of my price range. Even if things aren't quite perfect right now, just imagine what the finished product could be if we encourage people to create, not scare them.

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