After a game like Lethal Company, conservatively estimated to have sold over 10 million copies on Steam since its October 2023 launch, solo creator Zeekerss is free to do whatever he wants. As demonstrated by his most recent release, the completely free text adventure Welcome To The Dark Place, which has been in the works for about 10 years, he still wants to make weird little horror games, and it doesn't matter if they don't make him any money.
In an email interview with GamesRadar+, Zeekerss explains that horror games have ironically become his happy place. He has plenty of ideas for new ones, like a spiritual successor to one of his previous top games, an open-world stealth game where you are being hunted, and yes, Lethal Company 2. But for now, he wants to finish his now two-year-old co-op horror hit, and with Welcome To The Dark Place finally unleashed, he's motivated to get Lethal Company out of early access.
Welcome, to the dark place
GamesRadar+: You released several horror games even before Lethal Company. Welcome To The Dark Place definitely has an unnerving, nightmarish energy. What keeps you coming back to horror?
Zeekerss: I didn't start by making horror games, but I found my home in this genre. I don't know why, but it feels like fear has been my primary emotion ever since I was a kid. But it's a deeper thing; the emotional spectrum of fear and courage, hope and despair, is my way of interpreting the world. As an artist, it's my first language. I can branch out to other genres, but they'll always find their context in that.
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What pushed you to make a text-based adventure like this? Are you a big fan of text-based games, historically?
When I was a kid, maybe 10 years old, somebody loaded up Zork on the family computer and let me loose. I remember feeling like it was the most realistic and mysterious game I had ever played. Besides that, Kentucky Route Zero enamored me with its magical realism. That game does this thing where it dives into dizzying, text-based "rabbit holes" in which you tell yourself the story. Then there's Stories Untold, which uses text-based sequences to great effect. These all left an impression.
I want to say this game was first mentioned years ago. How long have you been working on Welcome To The Dark Place?
I tried making a text-based game in Roblox right before I left that platform, around 2015/2016. Then there is a prototype version of Welcome To The Dark Place which was made in 2017. Then, with more experience in the Unity game engine, I restarted development completely in 2019, getting rid of the text parser and opting for a multiple-choice style gameplay. Since then, I repeatedly put it on hold to work on other projects, including Lethal Company. You have to beware of becoming so attached to a massive project that you chain yourself to it, because that's how you kill it for good.
What was the biggest challenge while making this game?
The strength of the text-based genre is that its scope isn't limited by the need to make 3D models and textures and mechanics. As soon as I think of something, it can be playable. But that made it very easy for this project to spiral out of control. At times it was maddening. Then there was the audio-based aspect of the game, which required me to meticulously make sound effects for everything that I thought up; I'd write and write and write, then regret it afterwards when I had to do the audio work.
Was it refreshing to do more writing, or more player- and gameplay-facing narrative work, after Lethal Company, which feels like a more mechanic-based game?
It is very refreshing when I've been coding and 3D-modelling for a long time. But actually, this project has made me realize that I really enjoy making mechanics in normal games, because that feels like it has a lot more variety and challenges in the process.
I only want to sell a game if I'm very certain that most people will enjoy it
Zeekerss
For Welcome To The Dark Place, instead of mechanics, there are rules and conventions and patterns, which I invented in my head and simply choose to follow. One such rule is that the player must always be able to listen to doors before opening them. In a normal game, that would be a hard-coded ability, a button the player can always press; but here, I am always in complete control of whatever the player is able to do.
Some devs say audio is more than 50% of horror games. That feels especially true with this game. How did you source and create all the sounds and effects you needed here?
I used Audacity to layer and filter sound effects, sourcing them mostly from Freesound.org. (I tried very hard to layer and mix these recordings, since some of these sounds are very recognizable and over-used, and now I can't unhear them in other games!) I also got some voice-acting from some family and friends, and there are several music tracks that are made completely by my friends and family. Working on this game was like audio design boot camp. I only know that I've improved because some of the oldest areas in this game sounded surprisingly bad to me when I came back to it.
How would you describe the games you make and want to make? What defines a Zeekerss game?
My goal is to delight the player. I love that word. And for me, when I hear "delight", surprise and awe is what I think of first. There was a youtube video by the channel Errant Signal about my games, in which he said I have an "impish nature" and that my games are like a "series of practical jokes on the player." And that has always stuck with me because it's so perfect.
You've gone back and forth on making games free or just very low-price. Why release Welcome To The Dark Place for free?
At one point I was going to sell this game, but then I put it aside to work on other projects, and since then my standards for myself have gone up. I only want to sell a game if I'm very certain that most people will enjoy it. This game requires some extra skills from the player for it to be fully enjoyed. Plus, because I've never made something like this before, I also just didn't know how much people would like it. And now after Lethal Company, I just don't have a reason to put unnecessary pressure on myself. It just doesn't feel right for this game anymore.
This is the first game you've released on Steam since Lethal Company. Has your approach to game development changed in the past two years?
Nope!
How has your life changed since releasing Lethal Company?
Weirdly, not a lot has changed. By far the most important things I had before were the relationships with people which I still have now.
You've mentioned a bit of burnout online. Has it been reinvigorating to release Welcome To The Dark Place?
I think I'll just have less distraction now. It's definitely going to be satisfying to dust off my hands and move on from it.
It feels like a lot of people expected your next game to be Lethal Company 2, or a similar type of co-op game, just because it became such a big thing, but you've not gone with that 'safe' route here. Do you feel any pressure for a sequel?
I haven't had anyone ask me about a sequel to Lethal Company, but I know people really want more updates to it! It's still in early access because I have a lot left to do. As for Lethal Company 2, I have a vision for what that ought to be, and it surpasses my own ambition. In the future, if I become bold enough to gather a team to work with me, it could happen, but I'm more excited by the idea of working on other ideas solo.
My understanding is that, after Lethal Company, you can pretty much do whatever you want. So, what do you want to do now? Continue making compact, free games like this?
After Lethal Company, I have a good handful of ideas for games, some big and some little. I have an itch to make a sequel or spiritual successor to The Upturned, a game using motion controls with two hands to interact with the environment, a party game collection in the same vein as Wii Play, an open-world stealth game about being hunted across a vast distance, and a game involving a car. But for now my attention is going to be on finishing Lethal Company.
