High Horse: Save Our Internet

I'm not even American and I want to write your goddamn government about this stupid bill...

also, "our countries wonderful legal system"? what about it is so wonderful? we have more people in jail than china, and 80% of those people are there for non-violent "crimes". Our jails are so full of people that got caught with an ounce or so of weed that rapists and violent criminals just get house arrest. If we had such a wonderful legal system, then we wouldnt have one of the highest crime rates in the world...

It's hard to tell, but I think that when he said "Our wonderful legal system", he might have been sarcastic. Hard to say since we still don't have a font for sarcasm, but yeah XD

Whether sarcastic or not, it is ignorant to say that the American Justice system isn't a great tool to push through social change or prove the unconstitutionality of a certain bill. The wonderful part about the fact that we have a legal system is that it sets up a system of checks and balances where the courts can override or at least for the revision of poorly written laws. Anyone who has taken a historical social justice course should realize this, and you can look at one example of the progress made by the Civil Rights movement prior to the Voting Rights Act as opposed to the Black Power and Vietnam initiatives that grew off it. Also keep in mind that it is a lot easier to prove someone is guilty of possession than that they murdered someone. Criminals are criminals.

Dude, I invite you to come down over to Mexico. See how delightfully useless our legal system is in comparison to yours.

While it is certainly possible that I am wrong, it is not necessary to call me ignorant. You dont need to lecture me about the so-called "checks and balances" of the american law system. I've been exposed to that propaganda for years. the american "justice" system is not a great tool for social change. When slavery was abolished, the south simply worked around it with jim crow laws and the like. during the civil rights movement, congress may have passed legislation, but so what? conditions did not actually improve for african-americans and other racial minorities. It could be said that they got worse. just look up some crime statistics, and you'll see that minorities are still treated very poorly by our legal system. They are ensnared in the ponzi scheme called welfare, and one in three black men have been in jail. the government is a tool for a social change, it's a violent group of thugs that just want your money. I dont know what you mean by "criminals are criminals". I advise that you consider that its nearly impossible to not break the law in this country, considering over 40,000 laws are created each year, and hardly any are taken away.

I dont mean to say that the american legal system is the worst. I wouldnt know how to measure that. However, I do think the American government is the most violent and destructive, considering how many people it has in jail, and considering how many innocent civilian lives it has destroyed, both domestically and abroad. that being said, I have been to mexico. I've also spent many years in Pakistan and Afghanistan, as well as many other countries. I know what a useless legal system looks like. Of course, all legal systems are pretty much useless..

I always buy what I'm interested in. I played a bunch of Taito games on MAME and bought Taito Legends 2. I played some NES games on Virtualnes and bought the ones I like. I should have to be forced to buy games I haven't played. Old games didn't have demos so including entire ROMs online helps to sell games. Having movies online helps to sell DVDs and Blu-Rays with bonus features you don't usually see online. Having music online inspires other artists and helps to get people intested in seeing the band live which brings them money. Free media is like free advertising. And YouTube is the biggest site for free advertising plus advertisers can actually make money off their ads they submit their ads as videos.

your statement "Piracy is a problem. It’s straight-up wrong. Stealing movies, games, music, whatever; it’s all wrong. Oh, you have a counter-argument? Sorry, nope. Piracy is bad. It hurts artists, plain and simple. " is somewhat offensive, and seems close-minded. You simply dismiss any possible counter-argument without even addressing any, and make a blanket statement that "piracy is bad. it hurts artists." this is hardly a logical argument. how do you know piracy is bad? because it hurts artists? well, I happen to be an artist as well, and it hurts me when I cant use and build on other ideas. Obviously, it doesnt physically hurt them, it just prevents them from making as much money as they could. Is not giving money to artists a crime now? "piracy" is not wrong because it is not stealing. you cannot steal information or ideas because information and ideas cannot be owned, because information and ideas do not really exist in the physical world. Since they cannot be owned, then they cannot be described as property. If I go to the bookstore and take a book without buying, then I am stealing, because the bookstore's property is being transferred to me without the bookstore's consent. If I simply copy what the book says onto a piece of paper or whatever, then I am not stealing, because the bookstore is not actually losing anything. I may be gaining knowledge, but that is hardly wrong. the bookstore is not getting my money, but that is not wrong either, anymore than walking by the grocery store and not buying all the food is wrong. Intellectual property rights is just an evil excuse to monopolize ideas. saying that piracy hurts artists is like saying having apple around hurts microsoft. So what? isnt a good thing that microsoft isnt our only computer company?

I'm sorry. You make a convincing argument, but I laughed when I read "you cannot steal information or ideas."

so basically, you claim you are an artist, but you opnely say you don´t mind if somebody comes along and makes a copy of whatever work you´´ve been breaking your backbone from and then sells it around without even giving you acknowledgement?...no revenue?....you do know that if everybody thought that piracy was a good thing and a fair business, then people would have no incentive to produce big works in the creative industry?. Would you work years and huge amounts of money to create an IP so you can sit back and relax as you watch the money that should belong to you go to the piraters pockets?. you´re arguments are neither convincing nor valid, if stealing ideas is fine, then according to Kant, stealing property is also fine. Stealing is stealing and unless you´re playing Skyrim, it´s wrong. btw my captcha is a mathematical equation lol

I just want to point out for the record that labor is what creates value. It takes energy from the brain in order to create the idea. Let alone the subject that information on the net, computers, and other electronics actually have mass, they physically exists. Your idea is not only in correlation to how much labor you put into creating it, it also gains the labor value from whatever function it has that creates less labor. Therefor it gains the labor value from what it simplifies. The basic gist of what I'm saying is that idea's and information physically exists through neural connections, and that electronic information actually has mass. Sorry about that.

So will you now forward along to every user on this site every idea, everything you've written and everything you've created? If you don't, your just another leech with an inflated sense of entitlement. The ease of getting materials is not correlated to its worth.

Im glad I made you laugh..

please do not lecture me. you might disagree with me, and it's possible that I am wrong, but that does not mean that I am an idiot. what I "feel" about it does not matter. we're trying to prove or disprove the morality of intellectual property rights. that means using logical arguments, and not use the argument from effect or emotion. when a mathematician suggests a theory, people dont go saying it's wrong because it makes them feel bad. well, they might, but that's really quite silly. I would mind if somebody copied my exact work and sold it without saying I did it, but I wouldnt want them to go to jail for it. I would be annoyed, but I wouldnt think that what they did was wrong. besides, them selling the art doesnt prevent me from selling it. they arent taking anything from me. I do not lose anything. everything that they do, they do with their own property. they used the idea that I created, but that does not mean that I lost anything. and sure, I could send them to jail, but isnt putting a gun to someone's head and locking them up in the raperoom called prison even more of a moral atrocity than downloaded some songs for free? "you do know that if everybody thought that piracy was a good thing and a fair business, then people would have no incentive to produce big works in the creative industry?." seriously, why do I keep getting lectured like some sort of child? just give me some credit for having at least a partially functional neuron or two, please. if its something obvious that just popped into your head, it's probably popped into mine, too.. first of all, how do you know this? do you have proof? I dont think anybody can say how industry would look like if nobody believed in IP. it'd be different, yeah, but so what? the market would adapt to it like it always does. secondly, there's already a huge amount of piracy, and it's incredibly easy, but companies still make money. why is this? I dont really know, but I would submit it's because people want the companies to make money. anybody can download games for free, but they dont. I even buy games, because I want the companies to have my money. I dont want Bungie or Bioware or all the other awesome game developers to go under, so I buy their games. hell, I'd probably give them donations if they asked for them..

marx labor theory of value, I presume? that theory is incorrect. labor is not what creates value. value for an object/service/whatever is created by how much people are willing to pay for it. if labor was what created value, nothing would really be profitable. also, someone that works really hard, i.e., a coal mine worker, would make a lot more money than someone that does not work really hard, i.e., Lil Wayne. but Lil Wayne does not work hard, and he makes a shit ton of money. also, if labor gave things value, than I could spend 2 years working carving a pencil out by hand, and it would be worth a huge amount of money. except that's not what would really happen. it be worth just as much as every other pencil, because no one would pay more than a few cents or a dollar for pencil, no matter how much work I put into it. You are right when you say computers and such physically exist. but we're not talking about stealing computers. we're talking about ideas. Electronic information may have mass, but that is irrelevant. it's not like a pirate steals electricity from someone when they download something. they are just using an idea. technically, they are using their own brain-electricity to "create" the idea within their own brain. the same can be said putting music onto their ipod. the fact is, when someone "steals" an idea, there is no actual transfer of property. I have a ton of ideas in my head that were originally created by other people, but it's not like they own the electricity in my brain. and what exactly are you apologizing for?

I dont understand why you think I should do that. also, I may be wrong, but I dont see why you need to insult me. everyone gets most of their ideas and information from other people, and I doubt that you managed to figure out everything that humans have discovered/created all by yourself. also, I said nothing about the ease of materials being correlated to worth. I said it was easy to download things for free, but I didnt say that meant it was okay to do so. I'm saying that "stealing" ideas is okay, because when you download a song/movie/whatever, there isnt actually any transfer of property. the original "owner" of the idea does not lose anything.

Two word: Preach it!

I just want to add that just because you put more effort and labor into an item or job does not entitle you to the value of said labor. That's why corporate heads and stockholders gain profit for doing little work, it comes from somewhere, the workers and consumers. It's a bureaucratic system. Those that do little work can gain labor value due to scarcity, the demand, and other factors. Also about the idea's concept, I can't argue about the non-transference of electric signals, but I do want to contest your reply on "Innovation and creativity" Pinokllin stated. "first of all, how do you know this? do you have proof? I dont think anybody can say how industry would look like if nobody believed in IP. it'd be different, yeah, but so what? the market would adapt to it like it always does." I believe that the last statement sort of contradicted your first one. I agree that no one really can predict the outcome as well, but my guess is that because your idea's will be absorbed by a larger company with more manpower, capital, and such, then how can you compete with their lower prices of manufacturing and design? It doesn't make sense to me how the market could "adapt to it". It seems way more likely that bigger companies will just grow and monopolize, so why even try to be innovative when your new idea's will probably just be absorbed? Just a thought although. "secondly, there's already a huge amount of piracy, and it's incredibly easy, but companies still make money. why is this? I dont really know, but I would submit it's because people want the companies to make money. anybody can download games for free, but they dont. I even buy games, because I want the companies to have my money. I dont want Bungie or Bioware or all the other awesome game developers to go under, so I buy their games. hell, I'd probably give them donations if they asked for them.." I'll submit because no one wants to be sued copious amounts of cash. IP rights has been created by humans over many years of capitalism and even farther back before that. It's a human created system, just as laws. Laws are just enforced idea's, and to say that you should not abide by said laws that although does not physically exists is denying the system we live in today. Although physical punishments are given by non physical laws is very objective, it's a system that promotes peace, innovation, and control over our species. I thought about it, and cannot argue with you on the non-physicality of idea's and the human created "rights" that are applied to it, but I can argue that pirating is bad, because our judicial and social system says it is. If you don't believe in validity of the system, then you might as well say that all laws has no right to punish others, and rethink your existence as a human.

This bill will only make piracy worse. I mean, if most websites will be shutdown, people might as well download every video, game, and MP3 they can before the bill becomes law.