The polls are in and Succession season 4 has been named Total Film’s TV show of 2023. To mark the occasion, TF spoke to the show’s creator Jesse Armstrong to dissect the beloved series’ final season. It was certainly a dramatic farewell to Waystar Royco too as the company’s future was decided once and for all.
Armstrong discusses all the big revelations below, as well as sharing his thoughts on why this was the right time to end the show and an episode he has a soft spot for. But before reading TF's conversation with the mind behind it all, be warned that we get into heavy spoilers for those final scenes.
This interview first appeared in Total Film's Review of the Year 2023 supplement, which you can order online here. The following conversation has been edited for length and clarity.
Total Film: Congratulations on Succession season 4 being named our TV show of 2023!
Jesse Armstrong: Thank you. It’s very nice [receiving accolades]. I’m still honored and pleased, and pleased that people clocked the show and regard it well.
What dictated the fact that season 4 would be the final season?
HBO have been very supportive, and supportive of me doing what I want. I spoke to Casey [Bloys, Chairman and CEO] about it early, and I spoke to my fellow writers about it early. There were a bunch of key things that I wanted to happen before the end, one of them being that I wanted time to explore what it was like after Logan had died. And it felt, to me, like we were coming to the end of the question of who should succeed. I felt like it was going to start stretching things if we didn’t answer it.
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Did you have an ending in mind when you started out?
I didn’t have an ending in mind, in practical terms. It was up in the air if Logan might die at the end of the first series. Many different shapes were discussed. I guess what I always knew was what the tone of the end of the show would be. In my mind, the kids weren’t suitable candidates to take over, and the world of media meant that there was probably going to be an absorption, or a merger or an acquisition that, probably, Waystar wasn’t going to lead because of its size as a media company and what else was happening in the media world.
While I didn’t know the specifics, and it didn’t occur to me, I think, until getting into Season 2 that Tom could take over – and that was a feeling that grew and grew – I was comfortable writing because I knew the tone of the ending we were going for, and the variety of ending. And that’s a good way for us to work, and a good way for me to work, because then enough is open that you can find the best plots, but enough is decided that you’re not like, "Oh, well, maybe it turns into a show about them buying a Formula 1 racing team" and we go off over there, you know?
Was it always the plan for Logan to die off-screen in that way?
It was an early idea that he would be on the plane. We did discuss at some length whether Roman could be with him… [But] I think the majority opinion was always that you have the siblings together, away from him, and you have this sort of whiff of confusion over what’s happening. I was pretty keen on that, as soon as we discussed his death.
The Succession cast was superb across the board. Did you start with Logan and build from there?
We did start with Logan. It was Adam McKay’s idea to approach [Brian Cox], and I was enthusiastic. We obviously knew his work so well, and we didn’t need to hear him read. Everyone else read. They were all our first choices – me and Adam and HBO. And I guess they all are extraordinarily truthful to my mind, and all have an awareness of comedy: they’re aware of the comic twists in the writing that me and my colleagues do in the show.
Is Brian Cox as scary to work with as one might imagine?
[laughs] No! He’s a nice person. As we say, he’d be number one on the call sheet. He’s the hub of the little repertory company we had. He has a status, and when occasionally I’ve had to argue a point with him, he’s a steadfast opponent in having an argument or a debate about a character or a plot point – but always decent. Always intelligent. His breadth of knowledge, not least from the RSC and his Shakespearean experience, means he’s often bringing a lot to the table in those debates. I was pleased to be a sparring partner with him sometimes. But mostly he’s a delightful colleague.
When the episodes were airing weekly, did you pay any attention to any of the online discussion around the show?
I specifically didn’t, especially before we finished, because it’s great to debate character, plot, theme in the writers’ room. But I think it would be destructive to carry out those discussions with a potentially infinite number of people – not that people don’t have really interesting thoughts, theories, and ideas. But I need to be able to talk to someone, and interrogate their point of view so that we can come to an agreement. I need to know why I think everyone is doing what they’re doing. So I wouldn’t like that second-guess-y feeling you can potentially get from engaging.
That said, now the show’s over, and even as it was ending, because that danger was no longer there, because the show was locked, and once the final episode was locked – yeah, I’m curious about what people are saying. We write the show hoping that people will engage and feel things when they see it. You have to be a little bit careful you don’t stab yourself in the eye with a burning needle by reading something [in which] someone thinks you’ve got it all wrong – it can be upsetting.
But it’s interesting. We’re lucky that, mostly, it seems that the people who enjoyed the show felt it was a satisfying ending. I hope I have the strength and conviction to back us even if people said it was, quote, you know, "wrong" or they didn’t feel that. But I think we got it right, and it seems like it’s got a decent reception. So that’s nice.
What kind of job do you see Tom doing as CEO?
I have this kind of slight iron shutter that comes down on my consideration of their stuff. I don’t know whether it’s self-protection because I don’t want anyone to write it, even myself, if we’re not going to execute it.
[On the show,] often it would work that I would have a gut feeling, but then I would thoroughly interrogate it in the room, and I’d check it out with my colleagues. I would come in with the proposition, and then Lucy [Prebble] and Tony [Roche] and Jon [Brown] and Georgia [Pritchett] and Will [Tracy] would interrogate the shit out of it, and then it’d feel locked. And so I feel really uncomfortable shooting from the hip [laughs].
This is possibly like choosing one of your children, but do you have a favorite episode?
I mean, that feels difficult, but… I’m glad the final episode worked well. I’m glad the one where Logan died seemed to work for people. The one which maybe sort of does a bit of everything in a way for me - if I was [recommending] to someone who’s only going to watch one episode - the last episode of Season 2 I’m very fond of. I feel like it’s funny and also has a lot of heft to it, which I find very enjoyable.
Finally, do you have any idea what you’re going to be working on next? Have you started on anything?
No. I’m enjoying having a break. I’m tidying my office. Literally, you’re catching me as I go through the research files. I might keep some of them for mementos, or shred some. I’ve got a long tail of thinking about the show and tidying up. I’ve got a few ideas for different things. But it’s really enjoyable after the not inconsiderable pressure of getting the show right, to sort of take my foot off the gas for a bit, and not feel the pressure to come up with anything new for a little while.
Succession: The Complete Series is available to purchase digitally. Succession: The Complete Fourth & Final Season is also available on DVD.
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