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BladedFalcon - March 19, 2013 9:27 a.m.
Huh.. I hadn't noticed that this was a Houghton article. Well, that explains why he HAD to find a way to work Heavy Rain into it, even if he really has fuck all a valid reason to do so. -
GR_DavidHoughton - March 19, 2013 10:05 a.m.
There are at least three different suicide endings for Ethan in Heavy Rain. And at least one of those certainly doesn't involve EVERYTHING going wrong for him. At least two of them though, are unintentionally ridiculous. -
BladedFalcon - March 19, 2013 11:41 a.m.
You completely sidestepped my argument though. Yes, there are three scenarios in which he kills himself, and yes, in one he's with Madison, but even still, like I said, in all of them his only remaining son dies. And both of their deaths could be partially blamed on him, which he certainly does. Forget for a second that we're talking about heavy rain, forget everything else in the story, and try to be fair for a second. Would you seriously consider a man committing suicide because he lost and feels responsible for the death of both of his children unwarranted? Even if he still had a woman he just met and possibly cared for him? is that notion really so ridiculous? Or is it just that you're just hellbent on hating on David Cage and his work and bringing it up whenever possible? I know there's no way I can possibly change your mind, but at least try to be objective? You're a professional editor/writer, you SHOULD be above letting your personal bias overcome your objectivity. -
GR_DavidHoughton - March 19, 2013 11:49 a.m.
A a professional critic, my personal feelings towards any work are a result of my objective appraisal, not the other way around. -
BladedFalcon - March 19, 2013 2:06 p.m.
Are you then saying that, objectively speaking, losing your family and your only two children is a flimsy reason to commit suicide? -
Rub3z - March 19, 2013 3:37 p.m.
I've dealt with suicide before, Falcon (I'm obviously not going to go into details), and I think the main problem with your argument is that objectivity is every bit as relevant to the decision to commit suicide as quantum mechanics might be relevant to a chimpanzee. Either way, that's an incredibly dubious and loaded question to ask of anybody, let alone Mr. Houghton. I will offer you this, though, as a person that has dealt with the very real decision to end his own life (a decision I could not possibly wish on anybody), and have thankfully made the better decision: there is only one good reason to commit suicide (to save others). Barring that, every reason is a flimsy one, or there simply isn't another good one that exists. And please don't try to come up with hypothetical life-or-death situations, it really is as simple as that really. In cases where you are in any way forced or coerced by someone else, that isn't suicide, that's called murder. -
BladedFalcon - March 19, 2013 9:57 p.m.
Alright, first of all, thank you for sharing your thoughts about this, specially since it shows it's a subject close to home. As such, I'll do my best to be disrespectful in any way. And well, I feel like I need to clarify my stance a little bit. I'm not really advocating or saying that it was a good reason for Ethan, or anyone in that situation to commit suicide, in fact, in my very first post, I made this clear: "Bear in mind, I don't think suicide is justifiable even then, but at least at that point it's understandable, considering that thousands of people have committed suicide for far, far less than that." What I'm trying to say here, is that while I don't condone commuting suicide even in those circumstances. For the purposes of a story, heavy rain's story in this case, I don't find the decision "ridiculous" as Houghton claims it is. Or, like he phrased it in the article: "If not absolutely everything goes your way, suicide is a perfectly acceptable response. " The way he says it, he makes it sound like the character committed suicide for the most superfluous or stupid of reasons, or just because he didn't get his way, which is what I am heavily disagreeing with. Losing a child isn't a superfluous reason at all. And, if nothing else, to me, that circumstance makes more sense than, say, the climax of one of the most famous love stories ever written: Romeo & Juliet. And yet most people seems to find taht perfectly acceptable :/ -
The_Ouroboros - March 19, 2013 10:07 p.m.
What an incredible thread that started out of nowhere. Falcon, "I'll do my best to be disrespectful in any way," made me chuckle. -
BladedFalcon - March 20, 2013 8:16 a.m.
*Facepalm* oh man >.< It really was meant to say ""I'll do my best to NOT be disrespectful in any way," But of course, I missed that one kinda crucial word >>; -
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Rub3z - March 20, 2013 3:19 a.m.
I see your point. And even as someone who's dealt with this kind of thing, I'm above trying to shove some holier-than-thou rhetoric down your throat based on my life experiences... I hate it when my mom does that, as suddenly there's an arbitrary disconnect both parties where neither can relate to the other at all. It's just hard, I guess, having the burden (for lack of a better word) of such past experiences shaping your perceptions for an interminable span, if not your entire lifetime after the fact. Having been through that, I absolutely struggle to see any reason at all that would justify the choice in the least. But in spite of that I see where you're coming from, and I'm certainly not detracting you for it. I might even be a wee bit envious of you. Thank you Falcon, and your response wasn't disrespectful at all... even though it seems you were trying your best, lol -
BladedFalcon - March 20, 2013 9:31 a.m.
*laughs* that was a very unfortunate typo, my apologies ^^; I trust my actual intent was clear though XD And well- Again, I don't want to trivialize such a delicate topic as it is suicide, and I want to keep stressing: I do NOT condone it in pretty much any circumstance. But at the same time, looking at news and cases that HAVE happened around me, I often have heard of cases in which the person commuting suicide did it for actual, petty reasons, like simply losing a job, or a teenager that killed himself because he got dumped. In contrast, the situation presented in Heavy Rain, to me at least, feels at the very least more understandable, or at the very least, not at all a petty motive. Again, the whole crux about this entire thing is that I simply took offense at Houghton Handwaving the situation in the game as basically saying "Ethan Killed himself because things didn't absolutely go his way!". Making it sound as if he had killed himself for something as petty as say, missing a paycheck, which is clearly not the case >_> I feel like at this point, I've repeated myself way too often, so I'll stop, at the very least I hope it helped understand what I was trying to say, and that ultimately, I wouldn't condone suicide under either that, or even heavier circumstances. -
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FoxdenRacing - March 19, 2013 8:43 a.m.
"Send your convicts to the most inhospitable place you can find, and pretend they no longer exist. What could possibly go wrong?" -Killzone -
Swedish_Chef - March 19, 2013 8:22 a.m.
"Patience is a virtue. Good things come to those who wait. ...Except when they don't. ...Which is almost always." -SimCity (2013) -
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codystovall - March 19, 2013 7:02 a.m.
Mindlessly and unquestioningly serve and die for your leader, because you are replaceable. -Pikmin -
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StrayGator - March 19, 2013 6:33 a.m.
"Violence is never the answer. Except when it is. Which is always. Be aware that violence begets violence, but also know that you can easily deal with any violent repercussions of violence by using more violence." Words to live by.
BladedFalcon - March 19, 2013 9:22 a.m.