Western RPGs vs Japanese RPGs - Great Debate

Champions of Norrath, what happened to that?

It's too obscure to survive in today's market.

Wait.. what? I'm not sure I'm following.

Devs will only greenlight games that will sell tons of copies or already have a name behind them and Champions, albeit a really good game, is really obscure and didn't sell very well

That's nonsense. torchlight had no problem carving its own niche, without ANY history (i might give you blizzard north affiliation). CoN already had two games (which were excellent) and was based in the everquest universe. i'll admit that everquest doesn't pull much weight anymore, but there are plenty of gamers out there who would be very excited for a new CoN, especially because it is a console-based slash 'n loot. you don't think ps3 owners would eat that shit up? "Obscure and didn't sell very well". can you back that up?

Gone with Cooper. For me, JRPGs have simply failed to progress or innovate. Endless cutscenes, Emo characters, confusing plots and insanely repetitive combat has sunk that ship over the years.

None the less, the plots are indeed creative at times and the worlds could definitely be expanded on, but I do agree with you. That ship sunk like the Titanic in the movie, dramatically, a long time ago. But I do see a slight comeback on certain franchises.

i'm the type who compartmentalizes almost everything. i could tell you my favorite color (forest green), movie (taxi driver), band (make a rising), game (mega man 2), tv show (venture bros), etc. a lot of them obviously evolve over time, but are always clear moment to moment. this is somehow too apple to oranges for me, though. so many memorable experiences with both. i would have to say though, one thing that does stick out for me is the fact that, as i've gotten older, my affinity/tolerance for jrpg nonsense has lessened quite a bit (though not for SMT, should be noted, for it is all amazing). it's hard to think that ffvi or vii would blow me away as much today. wrpgs don't really blow me away either, but that may be due to the cynical callus that's grown around my brain more than anything else. if i had to choose between fallout 3 and persona 4, well...i'll take dragon's dogma, i guess (featuring some of the best/worst of both...and i probably liked all of these games about the same XD).

Western RPGs (US ones, anyhow) are usually action games disguised as RPGs. Skyrim for example, has more in common with Quake than Final Fantasy. Mass Effect has more in common with Dead Space than Xenoblade, and so on... The US has yet to commit to the RPG genre properly, that's why it's false to say that they are leading the genre - they're not even IN it.

RPG simply mean a game in which you play the role of the protagonist. All game could be said to really be RPGs, but the genre of RPG is simply designed by leveling, skill trees of a certain extent, and dialog options. Nothing about JRPG combat systems is a defining characteristic of an RPG, as the term does not have any reference to combat at all. Turn based combat is no more role setting than a third person shooter. The genre is all about interactive narratives, more open gameplay, and crafting a character specifically to your will. That is the defining characteristics of RPGs, of which both WRPG and JRPG share in common.

I find it hard to decide which I prefer. WRPG's give me more explorable worlds, choice, customisation and (sometimes) superior mature writing. JRPG's on the on the other hand, provide more vibrant colourful worlds and characters, more enjoyable strategic combat and wonderful soundtracks. My decision? Live like a king and enjoy both.

All this is proving is that JRPG fanboys care more. JRPGs are barely RPGs... no character creation, no choices. It's just a big stylish cut scene with rock paper scissors battles.

I'm going to have to massively disagree with Hollander on combat in WRPGs. Like Henry said the examples you gave are of games that are moving away from their RPG roots (and even with something like Mass Effect I’d argue it’s combat doesn’t stack up to a real dedicated shooting game) but for the most part WRPGs stick to the D & D/MMO model that you criticized and say what you will about turn based at least it feels like your choices have an impact on the combat where as the WRPG model feels like the game is just playing itself. The fact JRPGs are starting to go down that root never fails to depress me

Henry easily put up the better debate in my opinion, Coopers arguments sounded like those that would come from somebody who had only played ten minutes of a jrpg before. However my choice for the better of the two goes to the jrpg just by a hair, an extremely well animated and colourful hair. I feel that the story of JRPGs on the whole are so much more engaging and emotive, I'd rather have a predetermined fantastic cutscene over my choices giving me one of two different yet equally boring cutscenes (I'm not saying all WRPGs have boring stories just a lot of them). The art style and music in JRPGs are another plus, I've been listening to disgaea 4's soundtrack all week and it's amazing also the argument against Jpop becomes invalid if used in the correct context such as when a JRPG is set in a modern day city where people might you know actually listen to pop over a dramatic musical score. While WRPGs have more action based gameplay it can lead to games not feeling very RPGish at all like mass effect 2 and 3 in my opinion, while both are still amazing games I didn't think of them as rpgs. Another point for WRPGs is camera control, I love being able to control the camera and look around the world while in most JRPGs I feel like I'm missing out whenever they use fixed camera angles. But in the end it comes down to which genre has more of my favourite games, WRPGs have skyrim, mass effect 2&3 and not much else which I've played that tickle my fancy while JRPGs have TWEWY, Pokemon, Valkyria chronicles, persona, SMT: devil survivor, and my childhood favourite, digimon world 2003.

wrgps win hands down seruoisely cuz if there no guns in the game it sucks and is behind the times cuz we been useing guns for hundreds of years and swords r just dead tecology and also if im not in a ferst person point of view its imposseble to get immersed and last but not least jrps r just boreing and have bad storeies and r just based off amine cartoons and stuff so yes wrgps win hands down

Point-by-point feedback: 1: JRPGs: Constrained by manga/anime aesthetic style. Looks and personalities are often overly exaggerated and silly. WRPGs: Constrained by customization in gameplay. Looks and personalities are often blank slates for players to project themselves onto, which can be boring if you're not totally immersed. 2: JRPGs rely on cliches. WRPGs do too. The major difference I can see is that WRPGs are honest about their literary and cinematic influences. Skyrim's major influences are Beowulf, Tolkien, and DnD. Mass Effect pulls from Star Trek, War of the Worlds, and Lovecraft. JRPGs might be too but as an ignorant American they're lost on me. 3: JRPGs: Drama that sometimes dips into melodrama or gets lost in the grind. WRPGs: Drama that often gets lost in the endless open-world content. 4: JRPGs: Incomprehensible plots with big plot holes. WRPGs: A mix of good and bad. Mostly they let you decide how far to delve into the plot, which gives them an advantage. 5: JRPGs: Simpler gameplay and smaller worlds means less bugs. WRPGs: The bigger the world with more options, the more bugs. It's a trade-off. 6. JRPGs: Turn-based combat made sense in the 16-bit era. Now, not so much. WRPGs: Huge range of qualities here, but real-time action is always going to be more immersive than turn-based. 7. JRPGs: Big range of really really good and really really bad. WRPGs: Cinematic score does not mean LotR rip-off, Henry. Less memorable soundtracks in general, but a few gems (TES). 8. JRPGs: Traditional storytelling is more reliable. WRPGs: Big risks mean huge payoffs when they go well and fan backlash when they don't. Whatever you think about ME3's ending, it has cemented the series' place in video game history. In my opinion, what WRPGs have that makes them the winners is immersion. Deep character and gameplay customization, "blank slate" characterization, choice-driven narratives, open and coherent worlds, and sensible aesthetics are all important ways that WRPGs allow for a much greater degree of player immersion.

Well, I have to go with WRPGs. JRPGs are amazing, and I love to play them as much as the next guy, but they all are similar in a lot of ways. To some, that is a plus, but to me personally, I like innovation and change in video games. I like game developers adding their own twist to an RPG, a good example is Borderlands, for it is not a strictly speaking RPG, but it has those elements, and at its core it is one. Now Borderlands isn't story driven (not really at all), but my point is that WRPGs come in all different flavors, which I personally like better. Of Course, WRPGs do tend to be less like a RPG, but in the end, what makes a game an RPG varies from person to person.

1. Characters - JRPG 2. Cliches - JRPG 3. Drama - JRPG 4. Confusing Plots - WRPG 5. Glitches - JRPG 6. Combat - JRPG 7. Soundtracks - JRPG 8. Choice - WRPG JRPG 6-2 Given the parameters, JRPGs wins hands down. JRPG's are about the overall experience and it's a much more memorable one. WRPG focus more on combat/action and choice/freedom. They excel in some departments but they don't give you the overall satisfying experience. The Mass Effect series is great no doubt but having the entire plot cut in 3 parts loses what would have been a great overall experience. That's something you rarely or never see JRPGs do.

A ragtag group of teenagers picking up swords, staves, and bows to fight a boring evil presence replace with A ragtag group of aliens picking up guns, space magic, and stuff to fight a boring evil presence... in space! and you have mass effect. point invalid.

For me JRPG's all the way!!! JRPG characters have more... personality i guess, i end up actually caring for them, rooting for their success, cryin like a baby when one dies (not aerith) or totally wanting to leave them stranded on an isolated island somewhere (cough* Lymle from Star Ocean) you know it's pretty much a love/meh/hate relationship with every character. the stories do tend to be more complicated but all the more satisfying when you understand what went on. of course i've also played skyrim, amalur, the witcher, fallout, mass effect and so on. i enjoyed them, also got bored at times. (with the sole exception of mass effect)