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  • Jackonomics2.0 - February 3, 2014 11:52 a.m.

    Trying to explain Kingdom Hearts to someone while trying not to get said person thrown off and laugh at you when you just said the word Disney is the cruelest thing ever created.
  • BladedFalcon - February 3, 2014 1:17 p.m.

    I don't think being related to Disney is at all the problem of the series.
  • Jackonomics2.0 - February 4, 2014 8:13 a.m.

    I didnt say it was, most gamers today will laugh at that fact however.
  • BladedFalcon - February 4, 2014 8:50 a.m.

    Those people are idiots anyway. Smart people however, will also laugh at kingdom hearts, but for a very different reason, mainly that the story and characters are crap, and worse, that it tries to hide that fact by making it all more convoluted and trying to pass off as "complex" when it's actually anything but.
  • Jackonomics2.0 - February 4, 2014 10:02 a.m.

    Yeah it is unneccesarily complicated, the only decent discussions you hear about upcoming KH games is "What Disney world will we visit this time" showing that even the fanbase barely cares on how they'll sew the story. I recall someone here couple months back saying that as of DDD "Everyone's either a clone of Sora or Xehanort". this is is how far in its shit spin we are.
  • BladedFalcon - February 4, 2014 11:02 a.m.

    See, that's what pisses me off about the franchise. I mean, I LIKE that it's a mix of Disney and square, but the game's plot is too far up in it's own ass and original characters (Which in a crossover, they are what everyone LEAST cares about...) to give the Disney or square characters the respect or treatment they deserve. Seeing a lot of the Disney characters and properties are nice, but they are always backdrops at best for the bullcrap story and original characters. And due to the self serious and angsty tone of said plot, you end up having a ton of Disney characters acting completely out of character. Honestly, Disney would have been far better off making a crossover series with Nintendo instead. The Disney characters would feel far more at home in most Nintendo created worlds. And fuck, I keep insisting that the SNES Mario RPG was more Disney in tone (despite having no Disney characters whatsoever) than anything KH has ever done. As you might probably tell, I'm sick of the KH franchise, but I HAVE played it and I have found it extremely lacking.
  • iamvishnu - February 3, 2014 1:39 p.m.

    agreed
  • Vonter - February 3, 2014 11:15 a.m.

    I think Shadow of the Colossus is also that kind of game. You can pick it apart but that game has to be experienced to be understood. IMO it goes beyond a game in all the right ways, immersion being its best aspect.
  • BladedFalcon - February 3, 2014 1:27 p.m.

    Yes, but while I agree that playing it is different than explaining it, you could make that same argument with most games. However you CAN properly explain and make other people understand why something like Shadow of the Colossus is so great, because again, you can go to the atmosphere, the colossus themselves, the feeling of loneliness etc. Most of the games in this list is more complicated than that because their virtues are harder to describe or put into words. Like, I can tell you that Demon and Dark Souls are amazing because how unique they are, from the combat, the sense of atmosphere, the tone and story, but to actually DESCRIBE each of those aspects, I have a real trouble putting it into words, just like my brother had trouble selling me into playing Demon Souls, it was only after I actually played that I Understood what I was talking about.
  • Vonter - February 3, 2014 2:02 p.m.

    I think the difference is mainly expectations we usually come with comparisons especially in games. "Oh is like Zelda" and "oh is like Prince of Persia" the game has those moments but it isn't in anyway alike to those. Yeah Dark Souls might be hard to get into, because is marketed as being brutally hard, and how its narrative isn't conveyed in a traditional way one has come to expect. There are those kinds of games that have to be experienced.
  • Vonter - February 3, 2014 2:07 p.m.

    Also I haven't tried Dark Souls. Is it "Prinny can I really be the hero" hard or if you didn't play that is it like "I wanna be the Guy"? Cheap hard?
  • BladedFalcon - February 3, 2014 3:47 p.m.

    I didn't play the Prinny games, but I know what you meant. And no, Dark Souls isn't like that at all. I mean, honestly, more than "hard" I'd say they are strict. This in the sense that they do demand you to pay close attention to your surroundings all the time, and to not do so leaves you open to get ambushed by a trap or an enemy that if it doesn't outright kill you, it will hurt bad. And if you get greedy, or don't learned how to play well, you WILL be pummeled, but it's always a fair game in the sense that it won't "cheat" and suddenly do something that doesn't fit with what you've learned from it so far. So again, i think it's reputation stems more from the fact that the game punishes you severely when you fail to properly understand how it works, and also because it cracks down when most other games are very lenient, Like having tons of check point, easy or unlimited ways to heal, or allowing you to cheese or get greedy when attacking an opponent. But if you actually learn to play properly, the game is never TOO HARD or unfair, it's just demanding. Of course, this asks of a lot of patience and commitment from the player, and also skill, which is why wimps like Henry Gilbert or Hollander Cooper would never be able to enjoy the series :P
  • Vonter - February 3, 2014 6:10 p.m.

    Ah ok. Maybe I should give it a chance then. I just thought of another game for this article Killer 7, THAT'S a hard to explain and to get into, although more than playing it you really have to push forward into the end because it's more of an experience, I suppose the best way to kind of describe it is like a David Lynch film. Do you Henry or Cooper are up to DKC:TF..... Oh yeah that one has an easy mode now. Silly me. :p
  • BladedFalcon - February 3, 2014 6:38 p.m.

    I'm not since I don't own a Wii U. But I did play DK: Returns on the 3DS. It was a pretty enjoyable game, and I had fun, although I think other platformers like say, the Rayman games are superior in almost every aspect. And from listening to the Podcast, I can tell you that Cooper doesn't really like the series, (big surprise there, again, he's a wimp.) and I think henry does, but he did complain about the Difficulty. And I mean, again, evidence is everywhere on the site, those two have a very low tolerance for challenging games, and often they excuse their poor skills and/or patience by blaming the game or saying that it's cheap or badly designed, even when it's far from the truth. Even Lucas or Ryan, when they admit they suck at a game, they seldom blame it on the game and admit it's them. Which is usually why I pay attention to them way more.
  • Vonter - February 3, 2014 7 p.m.

    Oh well we'll see what it gets by the end of the month. Seeing how Returns got ported to the 3DS I could see it happening again (especially because of Wii U's low install base) but my best bet would be next year if it happens. But still I like that game in a big screen, wasn't as charming for me on the 3DS.
  • BladedFalcon - February 3, 2014 7:20 p.m.

    Yeah, it looked alright, but well, I did feel the game kinda lacked charm. Because again, I think any 2D game that uses 3D graphics is doing it wrong, because while 3D graphics are easier to animate, they will never look as defined and striking as 2D ones. And even though DKCR's graphics WERE pretty well realized, I still felt the world didn't have the personality that it had in those first 2 SNES DKC games. And also the enemies were trash. Dopey animals and lazily designed tambourines and instruments had nothing on King K. Rool and his bands of Kremlins.
  • Vonter - February 3, 2014 7:35 p.m.

    The main thing I give Retro my respects is in the animation of environments. It seemed as levels were alive with the constant action reaction they had, and also I may be a bit bias but the constant forward momentum you needed for some of the most hardcore stages was very exhilarating. That's what I missed in Rayman Legends, because that game tone down the difficulty by relying more on sound cues and having lower gravity than the original.
  • BladedFalcon - February 3, 2014 8:02 p.m.

    Eh, the animations in the environment where nice, but nothing the Rayman games didn't do just as well. (Most stages had a lot of stuff going on in the background as well, like the enemies fighting or trees randomly getting up and walking around.) And sorry, but the Momentum in Returns diminished precision and made the sections that required reflex reaction more clunky. Also.... Dude, the sound cues only helped in the musical stages... which all in all made less than 10% of the overall game. Though I agree that the game was easier than Origins. (except for the daily challenges, those can be thought mofos.)
  • Vonter - February 3, 2014 8:32 p.m.

    I don't know I'm not that critic of animation but for me the DK ones felt more solid, Rayman had more kinda liquid animation, it's kind of a problem when some elements look paper thin for it being in 2D. I don't know what you mean, is it that some parts required memorization? Like those levels where the ground falls constantly? I know but those stages replaced the chest chase stages (to put salt in the wound the chest levels in Legends just showed how light this game was to its predecessor) and while stylized weren't as challenging, and I should have emphasize that gravity did cut short the difficulty. I like the game but having beaten all levels in a weekend didn't put as much of an impact as the first one.
  • BladedFalcon - February 3, 2014 9:23 p.m.

    Not really if the style of the art is far more defined and striking overall thanks to the vibrancy of the color and the clear drawn lines of the characters. Not saying it's perfect, but IMO it has tons more personality than what you see in DKC, or in most 3D platformers for that matter. No, the memorization parts were fine, but some levels demanded you moved quickly, which normally is a perfectly reasonable demand, but when your character takes even a fraction of a second to accelerate, and the window you have before you get crushed is so short, it becomes rather frustrated. That was mainly in one of the later levels in the fossil canyons world, in which there was a part with boulders you had to outrun or quickly dive into cover before being crushed. In most other games, getting trough those traps isn't that hard, but in DKC:R it was annoying because of the acceleration, and also, because again, another problem with 3D models is that they are not nearly as well defined in their limits when it comes to hit-boxes. So knowing whether the boulder was close enough to hit you or not was much harder to make out than if it was a 2D animated game. And Yeah, I'll give you that, Legends definitely was much less challenging, but it was still very tightly designed and fun to play, and I do like it more than Origins if only because a good chunk of legends are the remastered levels of many of Origin's best, heh. And what do you mean that "gravity did cut short the difficulty"?
  • Vonter - February 3, 2014 9:37 p.m.

    Yeah, that's true, putting vibrant colors is hard, Rare also used high contrast in the SNES DKC, which give it an edgy look without it being gritty. It's funny cause I sometimes couldn't tell the hitboxes in Rayman so I used mainly punches and kicks to kill enemies and calculate jumps when needing to bounce in enemies. At least in the Wii version I didn't had trouble telling hitboxes in DKC:R. What I meant is like with Smash Bros. Brawl, in Legends characters fall more slowly and leave a more open window to react to miss jump and that's what made it more easy, it's especially noticeable in the chest chase levels in which also the lower speed of the game is more obvious (although checkpoints also made it easy too, can't understand why they put them in the boss stages).
  • shawksta - February 3, 2014 9:13 p.m.

    Retro wanted to differentiate and make an entirely new type of villains for DK in his return, the Tiki's were very weak in that department, especially the final boss just being a tired old trope. Tropical Freeze has a more similar vibe to DKC2's K. Rool Pirate Boogaloo with the villains being a group of Vikings and they are already proving to be much more better than the Tiki's by far. Having seen a lot of the game, they are definitely stepping up their game in Tropical Freeze. i would dare say its possibly akin to the Improvements from DKC to DKC2 by the Lion King styled Savanha level alone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7FeUx5nffM

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