• RCTrucker7 - September 11, 2008 2:29 p.m.

    Again? "While I've never downloaded a pirated copy of a game, I've done more than my share of downloading of movies, music, and software applications. Do I think it was ethical? Ultimately, no. When it get's down to it, regardless of your reason for downloading a copy of a game, or any "Intellectual Property" for that matter, whether it be because you just don't give a damn, you feel entitled, you're broke, or if you think you're doing the right thing by "sticking it to corporate America" and standing up for the little guy, the end result is the exact same; You have a product that was created by someone\some group, that was made available by that person\group, in exchange for payment from the intended user, that you did not pay for. Period. There is no arguing that. Product = In your hands \ Money = Still in your pocket.
  • Ginja ninge - September 11, 2008 1:05 p.m.

    To Ikillchicken and anyone else who used definition of words to justify piracy as not harming Devs and publishers then your just kidding yourself that you are not doing anything wrong. If some one has put time, money and effort into making something to sell, then you should decide whether you want it or not. Part of that decision process involves whether or not you are willing to pay the amount the money the business is valuing it at. If not then don't buy it. If enough people didnt buy it then the price would come down, but not when piracy exists as thats a whole load of potential buyers who wont pay even a discounted price. Personally, I went through a period of downloading music, well it actually started after me and a friend used to buy an album a week from our wages. I was only 15 or 16 and didnt make much from my paper round. After buying 3 albums in 3 weeks that I thought were BAD and my friend buying 3 he thought were bad, we started splitting the cost, buying one and making a copy (this was before MP3)...then file sharing came and we took this up with the start of napster. As a creative myself I, since college, do not like or approve of piracy. I understand and realise the value of what you are "stealing" from its creator. But, poor quality in games especially is a big reason for piracy, I dont want to pay £50 for a game that will last me 2 weeks. So now I think the best way is to rent games from say an internet site or something and use them as a test.
  • TheFaceWarrior - September 11, 2008 6:46 a.m.

    My own experiences can be organized into three categories. 1. I didn't want to pay for it. 2. I already paid for it. 3. I'm gonna make sure it works before I pay for it. Number 1 is pretty straight forward. The game is not that interesting and I just wanted something to play so I could pass the time. I knew I wasn't going to play it ever again and if I had gone to the store to buy it, I would have talked myself out of it by the time I got there. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying I didn't care enough about it for it to matter. Number 2 is the easiest to argue for. For example, I love Xenogears. However, I have played my copy so much that it melted. It literally has bubbled up in places and has ceased to work. Rather than pay an exorbitant amount of money online to somebody named "SugerBear1337" (who happens to have hermetically sealed away 500 copies back in 98'just in case), I choose instead to download it and save myself the fear of Suge knowing where I live. Still waiting for American PSN release. Number 3 is where you begin to ride the fence. I like to play fps' a lot. I wasn't sure though, how my computer would play one in particular. Compy is pretty old and despite the joy that I've gotten out of the previous titles in the series, I was pretty sure that the loud box under my desk wouldn't survive this one. So, i downloaded it to try. I know that I could have just downloaded the demo and tried that. Not all maps are created equal, however, and the demo maps could have played fine while the others would run about as fast as my great-grandmother after her hip replacement. Rather than drop $50 on the "cross your fingers and hold your breath method" I chose to test drive it first and found Compy to be up to the task. In return for its hard work, I put forth some effort and drove down to the store to purchase the Collector's Edition in all of its metal boxy glory. PS. Sometimes number 1 introduces me to a new game that I didn't think I would like and I end up playing the hell out of it. This is a rare occurrence but it does happen. I consider this occasion number 1b: "I didn't want to pay for it but realized it was actually worth a damn and did."
  • corronchilejano - September 11, 2008 5:59 a.m.

    1. Yes, I have downloaded illegal copies of videogames, and no, I do not think it was ethical. Videogames over here aren't only truly more expensive (due to taxes and stuff) but also the relative price is awesomely high. Whereas in the US $40 (which ends up costing $100 here) for a videogame is a 5 hour shift on minimum wage (I think), over here it can pretty much be 12 hours (30 with taxes), so you can only buy legal copies if you're not 80% of the people that live by the check, and that applies to almost all South America. 2. No, in escence, there's not. You're still getting something for free when you should be paying for it. 3. I think the problem in itself is what you end up buying. When you download an illegal copy, its because it's easy to access and there's no real difference (other than moral issues) with the legal copy. When games also ask you for even MORE money after buying them (expansions! extra shit! online play!), then you start feeling like a cow, getting milked AFTER you already bought the game (and Im looking at you Katamari). I think part of the solution isn't on DRM, but rather on showing the real "Bang for your buck" with whatever package you get. Not only getting the basic software, but also getting freebies with it, actually makes you want to GET the package. I ended up buying my GameCube with original copies after getting a job that didn't suck and game prices fell due to the console getting obsolete (second hand, unwanted games, etc).
  • Ravenbom - September 11, 2008 5:47 a.m.

    Good point Slapme7times. Good, valid counterpoint CandiedJester. Total tangent, CandiedJester, you should change your handle to CandideJester, because the Voltaire reference will make people think you're super smart... or bombastic... or full of mistypes... or all three? Honestly, either way, my dyslexia sees it as CandideJester either way. Well, the economy sucks now, for both corporations and consumers. But convenience is something worth paying for. I wish corporations would price games accordingly, like Mercury Meltdown on Wii is now $20, which really, it's a pretty good puzzle game, but it's only worth $20, not the $40 it started at. In fact, most Wii games (especially shovelware) are really only worth $20-$30. I was happy to see RE4 for Wii for $30 new, because that's about right. The best of the last gen, $30. However shallow, there's still something to be said for free games, like Wii Sports, Super Mario Bros/Duck Hunt... I've downloaded a buttload of games, music, movies in my time. I am a musician, and I appreciate what musicians do, but most big musicians are lucky to pocket a dollar or two for every album sold. When Radiohead had a pay what you want album online, with a fast download, industry execs predicted they made a little more than $3-4 per album downloaded. Which was more than they had ever made selling albums. Now, they're basically the next U2, who are in turn the next Rolling Stones, who tour and make $60 million every year. I do use Steam now, it's a matter of convenience and price point. The Orange Box has a GREAT price point. Download speeds are OK to pretty good. I do use Itunes on occasion. Convenience, again. But back in the early 2000's, I downloaded a bunch of Emulators and ROMs, for games and systems I once had or never got the chance to play in the US. Thank you, Internet, for Seiken Densetsu 3. Then the publishers started taking down all fan sites that hosted ROMs/EMUs for distributing and caring for games that they had left behind. They didn't care at ALL about classic gaming 8 years ago, NOW, that's all I play on my next gen systems. The Beatles catalog, whose melodies have been ripped off again and again without paying them, are about to start becoming public domain in the upcoming years. How fast does technology become obsolete? How fast does classic music become obsolete? I think the IP on tech is MUCH shorter than on other forms of entertainment. I see both sides. Hip hop/rap/any music that samples has been killed as a genre by lawyers. I don't like very much hip-hop, (I'm more of an indie-rocker-snob) but it's depressing to me that rap has been turned into kareoke. Ghetto Superstar was a Dolly Parton song, Islands in the Stream, for instance. Yes, lawyers can really kill an industry. They're why most of music today is so stale. But to move on, look at it from a consumer side. Do you want to pay for the same shit over and over? I don't. Once again, I'm going to step away from the game industry, and this time, move towards all the other stuff that fills up your comp's HD. Programs. Yes, computers were originally produced to fulfill user created tasks. Odd to think of it, but this is still what 90% of computers are meant to do. Mundane, work related tasks. Microsoft Word? Really? Should Office Suite still be $400? Final Cut Pro for $1200? Adobe CS3? ESRI ARCGIS? These programs are worse than Madden and Tony Hawk in making baby steps yet demanding full retail every few years. I just got done doing excel spreadsheets all day and none of the tasks I've needed to do have changed in more than 10 years. My ultimate point is, games and consumers need to find a better price point. I don't think it's right when a person pays $60 for a 6 hour game with 10 year old gameplay. I might as well rent the game, or illegally download, or buy it used at a later date. I still think that most downloadable titles are priced too high, for instance, I've filled up my Wii with Twilight Hack games, in part, because they're still holding back some of the games I had back when, and in part, because most of those games are diversions, not full games I want to spend money on. And lastly, Steam is making bank because its very easy to use. Nintendo (I do love Nintendo) boasts ease of use, so the Wii can be played by anyone from 4 to 80, but really, buying is not made easy on Wii. True, kids are smart, and can abuse a credit card, but most adults (like me) already abuse their own credit cards. In fact, make it too hard, or too expensive, and people will abuse the internet instead and download games for free. So the real question to developers/publishers is this: is it too difficult to buy games, or are they too expensive?
  • Deadshotjim - September 11, 2008 5:31 a.m.

    I have never pirated a thing in my life. However I don't look down upon those who do.I do feel that the PC gaming industry in praticular will survive along side piracy. But if piracy decreased ad didn't become such a big issue that in my opinion is blown out of proportion by the industry, more developers would be attracted to write for the PC. That would mean more a better games for us, just something to think about before you open up your bit torrent browser. Now I do want to bring up something that's a bit of topic, but really annoyed me. I saw an antipiracy ad at the beginning of a movie where it has a guy pirating a movie online, while he pirates the movie, he's car is stolen. This ad is making the point that stealing a vidoe is like stealing a car. Pirating a movie online only costs the maker 20 dollars or so stealing a car is more like 20,000 dollars. There not at all the same thing. That was just somethin that annoyed me.
  • CandiedJester - September 11, 2008 3:07 a.m.

    I've never dowloaded a free game, but I have downloaded pretty much all of my music. I don't feel like it's stealing..I guess I'm just used to it though. @Slapme7times If gamestop were shut down, than you would have to shut down pawn shops and Ebay also. There is nothing wrong with selling a game you will never play again to someone who will. Would you rather it just be thrown away? What good would that do.. fill up landfills? And what about games that are out of production, those who didn't get a chance to play it when it came out can buy from those who did. I don't see anything wrong with that. besides the people who bring those used games back for money (including me) usually buy new games with it so the money does end up going to the game companies anyway. And if Gamestop was a financial threat to game companies something would have been said already.
  • Bigpapa360 - September 11, 2008 2:42 a.m.

    I think there is a line of ethics that we all run into. I guess that comes down to wether you think that art should be free or if it should have to be paid for. I personally think that art should be free, as long as the original artist is given credit.
  • tyler_14_420 - September 11, 2008 2:29 a.m.

    Although I have pirated my share of music and (occasionally) a movie (which I don't usually even end up watching X_X), games are different. If I enjoy the game, I buy it. If I don't enjoy it, I usually will delete it (to save space on my 260gb hard drive). Most games have online features that only work if you buy it anyways. It's really more of a demo-kinda thing for me rather than "HA I pirated your game and you get no money now." The only reason this argument comes up is because the big companies will complain and in the end the little guy will get scared. Sure, Piracy isn't the most ethical thing but it might actually HELP the economy. It'll push developers to make their games have better online features AND to keep the cost down so that the average person can afford it. As long as Piracy doesn't become overly rampant, I don't see it as a problem. Also, With probaly atleast a million people downloading RIGHT NOW I don't see it slowing down anytime soon. Don't be drastic, just be calm and think of the gamers. Is the spore DRM really right? EA is doing the right thing but in the wrong way. Don't harm the gamers or make a great game worse. Find creative ways to solve the problem. (Don't sue me EA!)
  • N8ture - September 11, 2008 1:22 a.m.

    Is it me, or does it seem strange that every single person on this board says "I don't know about that, I've never downloaded any games before." Maybe it's just me. Maybe the fact that I have downloaded a few games before, makes me think that pretty much everyone has done it just once. It's probably just me being presumptuous I guess and I will appreciate any flaming. This is my first post, and I actually registered just so I could say something. Yes, I have done it. Everybody has done it. My mom downloads music for ****'s sake. A lot of the stuff out there is crap, cd's with one good song are crap, just like games with one good feature are crap. I admit I have not given back in every sense, but when something crosses my path that makes me want to play, I do buy the factory copy, cd, movie, whatever, and have paid a good deal for merch. I think that the dollars these companies are worried about losing are all hypotheticals. I think if there was no type of piracy out there, and people had a chance to play these games prior to purchase, there would be a lot of "no thank you's." Me in particular, the amount of games that I have played for free that I would actually pay for (or even play again) is probably about 40-50%. And thats generous.
  • lewis42025 - September 11, 2008 1:14 a.m.

    i've got to say that i've never downloaded a game before, but i have downloaded my share of music. i cant say that there is a difference b/w stealing music, and stealing games, but it does feel different for some reason. but if i hear about a game that i really cant wait for, and i dont have enough money when it comes out, stealing the game really never even crosses my mind. i either do some extra work or something, either way, i find a way to get the money for the game, because if i wanted it that bad, i'd much rather have to wait to get the game, than just steal it, and end up having another okami where nobody bought an excellent game for one reason or another. but i will say that i've probably legally bought one song in the last couple of years off of itunes, and that's because i couldnt find it on limewire first. it's just so convinient to load up limewire and have it in a few minutes, than to go out to a store and buy it. thank god gamesradar's podcast is free (bestest podcast ever) but i love this idea of you guys having free discussions on the website like this. hope you have more in the future.
  • gronfors - September 11, 2008 1:13 a.m.

    I've never Download a free Game before - though I regularly download Free Music, and once in a while, a free movie (Q. 1)- Music I feel nothing at all - it's just so wide spread, it doesn't seem that bad - Movies I'm more hesitant to download because they have all the disclaimers and things that SAY it's illegal, when your listening to songs, at the start of each song it doesn't give you this minute long thing about the legal issues of it. (Q. 2) That would be like justifying that people with lots of money, are more important than people with not a lot of money - to me There, your English class questions have been answered... just don't grade it
  • Sly_Fox - September 10, 2008 11:17 p.m.

    i've never pirated a game because if i liked it enough to do that i rather buy it and support the developer. Music might be a different story :x but i dont feel as bad about music for some reason, and if i like the bad enough i do buy the music
  • Tochy - September 10, 2008 10:42 p.m.

    god,people are posting some big ass comments
  • TiredButStillAive - September 10, 2008 10:20 p.m.

    Personally, the only pirated games ive played were from 15 years ago. But if i were to pirate Spore, or pirate Braid, well im making one less copy the developer wont get money for. So then, if enough people do this, then the dev. wont get enough money to pay back the costs of development. Then they may be dissolved into a larger company and the developer who made the awesome game will no longer make such games. Theyll be stuck making Spongebob (Probably). And if you cant afford these games, get a job, and wait for the price to go down. Or maybe if you dont care enough about the games, then find something cheaper and more interesting to you.
  • ikillchicken - September 10, 2008 9:31 p.m.

    I can honestly say that I've never pirated a game. That said, I've pirated a fair bit of other stuff. The stealing vs piracy debate is of course totally semantic but the fact that comes out of it is key: When you steal a physical item the previous owner loses that item. When you pirate (or steal if you wish to call it that) a game, you are gaining a copy of that game. It's not like with a physical item. If I steal an apple, the seller no longer has that apple to sell. I have cost him. A game company however is still free to go out there and sell the same number of games as ever regardless of whether I pirate their game or not. For that reason I do not see piracy as inherently bad. However, IP is a tricky thing. There is little to no production cost for individual units but rather a huge initial cost to create the IP. The hope is that once they have created the IP, they will be able to sell enough copies to make up for their cost. That is where the problem arises. What you may cost companies is not a lost item but a lost sale and that can be just as damaging. I have not put them back a step by taking a physical item but really, they have already put them selves back many steps with initial production costs and now are counting on the people who want to play their game to put them forward. However (again), you have really only cost them a sale if you would have bought the game if you were unable to pirate it. If you did not want something enough or could not afford to go out and buy it, then there was never really any chance of you paying for it so ultimately, whether you pirate it or just do without has no impact on the company. I think that if you can and would buy a game if you couldn't pirate it, then you really should buy it. If not, it's probably harmless to pirate it. There are a few conditions though: -Don't delude yourself. This only really works if you're honest with yourself. As soon as people start convincing themselves they can't afford to buy or wouldn't even though they would, this all falls apart. -Don't let IP be the only thing to suffer. It's not really fair to piss away all your money on stuff you can't pirate and then turn around and go "sorry games, but it looks like I'm broke now. Piracy here I come." -Recognize that the industry needs your support and you ought to do at least what you can. The one thing I simply cannot stand is people who think someone who buys something they could just pirate is some kind of sucker. No, they are somebody who is willing to spend their hard earned money even though they don't have to because they want to support the people who make the games they love and for that these people deserve our respect. -At least buy something. It doesn't have to be a lot but something. If you're so poor you can't buy even the odd game here or there, then you probably should stop sitting on your ass playing games and go out looking for a job or something. If games aren't worth enough to you to justify buying even the odd game here or there then you probably ought to go do something you actually give a tiny damn about with your time. If we maintain a little balance and be aware of what we're doing I think piracy can be beneficial and relatively harmless. Where it becomes a problem is when it spirals out of control. When people pirate anything and everything without even a thought. I do fear that piracy may be becoming like this or already be like this. It is especially concerning since unlike other things such as music, video, etc. I don't really see what the gaming industry can do to adapt.
  • Tasty_Pasta - September 10, 2008 8 p.m.

    Filthy Thief!!! Now that that's out of the way.. ...I've downloaded lots a games for my PSP. Most of which being old SNES or NES games that I already owned, but now I could play them wherever I want. So if I already own it for another system, how is that piracy? Now I have downloaded PSP ISOs, and my conclusion is that I'm not gonna pay $40 bucks for a very low quality game, when I can pay 10 bucks more for a newly released PC game that's 75x better than any PSP game could be. Hope that helps a little Tyler.
  • Donnagen - September 10, 2008 7:54 p.m.

    I am unsure about the facts on this issue. Does anyone have any idea how much revenue is lost to piracy? If so then please let me know. Sofar, i am yet to download a game ilegally.
  • Jacksonman07 - September 10, 2008 7:34 p.m.

    Yes, at some point I've downloaded games, and I thought it was unethical, but I felt justified in knowing that I'd go broke If'n I bought the game, I suppose the cost of games is what drives us to 'piracy'. For me theirs no difference if you downland games Braid or games like Spore, its still theft. Behind the corporation there is an idividual dev. team
  • Jigglesbig - September 10, 2008 6:38 p.m.

    Honestly, I have downloaded games in the past, but only a couple, and those were ones that as a European gamer, I never had any access to, and were 15 year old (or more) games that I wouldn't be able to import. And as soon as I was done with them, I deleted them. I'd say DRM and Lack of access to it (especially for us frequently-shafted European gamers) would be big reasons for other people. I can accept the fact that companies want to make sure it doesn't get illegally copied, but I think the ridiculous measures only serve to exacerbate the issue.

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