• xalith - February 25, 2010 10:58 p.m.

    3. (cont'd) As long as he got the exculpatory evidence to eliminate the suspiscion on Ethan in time, Norman would experience little fallout for his actions, and the police department would be too up to its eyeballs in the publicity nightmare that would ensue if it got out that they chained the father of a kidnapped child to a desk and beat his head in to even attempt to go after Norman. After all, he was protecting the civil rights of an innocent man.
  • xalith - February 25, 2010 10:49 p.m.

    Okay, let me first say that I hate to be the one to do this, but I feel that most of the complaints that are mentioned in this article do not require much to explain or show a lack of knowledge or attention paid by the article's author. Other items mentioned bring up some fairly valid complaints. I realize that I am going to sound like a total fanboy and will be called out as such, but I feel that this article will give some of its readers the impression that the writing in Heavy Rain is much worse than it acually is, so I will address each of the complaints mentioned in the article. I have to admit that the knowledge that I have gained from my degrees in criminal justice and psychology along with my career in the mutual fund industry have each given me some knowledge that may not be common knowledge to those outside of those fields, which may have made them more likely to see some of these issues as plot holes. Some of this is used in my responses. I apologize in advance for the impending walls of text. 1. Madison's reaction seems a bit odd, but, as has previously been mentioned, we do not actually know what was said to her, so the shock on her face may have been justified, depending on what was said to her. Also it is possible that Madison has knowledge of Shelby resulting from her career as a reporter. It is not entirely unreasonable to assume that she may know of someone who has hired Shelby as a PI to help investigate a story. Also, once she has his name, it is perfectly understandable that his home would be easy to find due to the fact that he works out of it and likely has a listing in the yellow pages under "Private Investigators" one google of his name should have gotten her to that info. She wouldn't be much of a reporter if she couldn't find an address that is listed in the phone book. 2. Thre is plenty of explanation as to why the pieces of evidence that Shelby goes around collecting throughout the game were not turned in. Keep in mind that the Shopkeeper is the only one who has an item and actually knows what it is. The rest of the fathers disappeared. The items were given to the fathers of the children as part of a series of tests which they were told would allow them to save their child's life if completed successfully. Perhaps they were not given over before the bodies were found because the fathers were using them to try to save their kids. Since all of the fathers but the Shopkeep went missing and could be assumed to be dead, the mothers of the children most likely were not aware of their importance. Keep in mind that one of Ethan's tests was to murder somone in cold blood. Perhaps the Shopkeep was faced with a similar test, killed a man, and does not wish to implicate himself in a murder by giving the police the biggest piece of evidence that connects him to it. 3. What Norman does in this scene would, at most, put him at risk of being arrested to be brought in for questioning; however, given the the facts that very little time (roughly one day if my memory serves me correctly) passes in the game after this scene and that Norman spends very little of it actually at the police station or in contact with the police, he has time to complete the series of events that would lead to the end of the game and give him the chance to exhonorate himself of any wrongdoing. The fact of the matter is that, as long as he turned off the camera, didn't leave prints on it, either go rid of or returned the key to the guard's desk, and left before anyone noticed that Ethan was missing, there would be very little evidence that actually pointed to Norman and the officers at the station would be bogged down trying to figure out who let the guy free. Keep in mind that both parts of the interrogation room were unlocked from the outside and that the one cop left the key to his handcuffs on his desk, and. therefore anyone in the room or st the press conference could have done it. Truth be told, there is a bit of bad writing in requiring you to use that key at all. Handcuff keys tend to be universal within a brand, so that when a cop gives a suspect in cuffs to another cop, he doesn't have to sit there and give the new cop the keys to his cuffs as well. Norman would have most likely been issued a set of cuffs and a key or two when he came on board. Also remember that kidnapping (which is what this caase was about at the time) falls under the jurisdiction of the FBI. To cover his butt, after he had made it out of the Station, Norman could have called his superiors, explained that Blake had restrained Ethan, beaten him, and had even drawn a gun during the interrogation, and lied to them, telling them that he took Ethan out of the Police Station and into his own custody in order to protect him from the overzealous cops. The FBI would have taken over the investigation before the cops could get a warrant issued to bring Norman in. (Cont'd)
  • ImNotTrying - February 25, 2010 10:44 p.m.

    The reason they are so hard on the plot holes is because this game is ALL about the damn plot. The point they made at the beginning is MOW2 is a shooting game so the plot means diddly this, on the other hand, is a story game so the fact it makes zero sense you know.. MATTERS.
  • Rodnroll - February 25, 2010 10:23 p.m.

    This game is polarazing. Week of hate material.
  • Rodnroll - February 25, 2010 10:17 p.m.

    I bought it. i'm enjoying it inmensely. It's true that the game has some plot holes, like most fictional stories, but it's a great game anyway. I understand yo guys at GR don't like it, and mentioning it a couple of times in the review and somo other article and whatnot, but you guys are giving it hard and low to this game like there's no tomorrow, even if it's universally acclaimed but most of the gaming press. Seems a little weird to me,and repetitive. Anyway, the game is great, but not for the hardcore action fan, that's true.
  • Pocotron - February 25, 2010 9:19 p.m.

    @TheBoz See, I use to get offended by xboxrulez, honestly. But now I know that he is just one of the GR guys, I'm having some fun too. So he doesn't offend me... I just like screwing with him :)
  • DriveShaft - February 25, 2010 9:17 p.m.

    Love the game, but yeah, it's kind of ridiculous how throughout the game no matter how many cops you punch or kick or try to outrun, none of the 500+ snipers 10 feet away at most even TRY to shoot you. Maybe David Cage's french media just doesn't translate as effectively to us North Americans?
  • russt12 - February 25, 2010 8:45 p.m.

    crumbdunky made some good points and dont flame him for it. he may not agree with the article. sharing your opinion is what the comments sections for.
  • TheBoz - February 25, 2010 8:34 p.m.

    @Pocotron, don't be easily offended, Xboxrulez is having a bit of fun on here. If he targeted me, I wouldn't care less. Ok, I have an Xbox, but doesn't mean I don't appreciate the Wii or the playstation. Live and let live they say, he has a bit of fun on here, just do the same and never take things to heart.
  • TheBoz - February 25, 2010 8:29 p.m.

    For it's faults, I will not slate this game, as games go, it is a visionary and I see it as an interesting concept and direction for computer games. The thing is, with new ideas, you do get many problems at the begining. You can look at some of the classic games that pushed the boundaries through the years, but as games, they were very dire. Shadow of the beast pushed graphics but in reality, was mediocre at the very best. Voyeur and all the other FMV games, played crap, but if it wasn't for them, how far back would full screen FMV be in applicatrions and games be now? The CD-i and some of the next gen consoles like the Jaguar were crap but pushed consoles forward. Motion captured characters in games like Another World, poor graphics but great animation aided the path of future techniques. Digitised speech, listen to Ghostbusters on the C64, digitised images like Mortal Kombat, crap animation. What I am saying is that all good thing have to start somewhere and if we get some games with faults for a few years, so what if the end result in 10-20yrs is amazing If this game succeeds, the next game of its type will address some issues. Look at virtual reality and holographics, even damn 3d is making a comeback. It will not progress to the next stage just by saying it is crap and shelving it.
  • Pocotron - February 25, 2010 8:14 p.m.

    @skyguy43 It only seems like this site doesn't take Playstation fanboys kindly. I mean, xboxrulez seems to run this whole fucking site!
  • lewis42025 - February 25, 2010 7:13 p.m.

    jeez crumbdunky, you're fanboy reaction came off as nothing but...well a fanboy's reaction. even though you used proper grammar and effective vocabulary, in the end you still blatantly ignored all of the reasons, and facts about the article by just saying "look, they tried so stop picking on them!" i have to whole heartedly disagree with you on that. while it is good that new ideas are being accepted and attempted, when they're executed as poorly as heavy rain's seems to have been, they do not deserve any type of slack, because otherwise no positive change would occur. what usually happens is when someone has a good idea, but it's very raw and unrefined, like heavy rain appears to be, it's taken back to the drawing board in order to either turn it into a masterpiece, or find out that the idea was never good in the first place. so while it's good that you're so passionate about new ideas and innovation for the industry, the way you're going about presenting said enthusiasim is all wrong and not likely to gather you any followers. on the article itself, i found it to be very informing (and hilarious) on the drawbacks of purchasing heavy rain. while it is pretty dissappointing to find out that the game that everyone's been so hyped about falls to victim to 'videogame fails 101', it's nice to know that GR (unlike crumbdunky) wasn't swept up by the shininess of heavy rain and saw it for what it really was - a poorly executed clustershart of ambitious ideas
  • Sebastian16 - February 25, 2010 6:52 p.m.

    My fanboy-rage senses are tingling.
  • VirAetas - February 25, 2010 6:47 p.m.

    My only problem with this article is that the game came out 2 days ago and they're already tossing up major plot spoilers. No, you don't have to read it(I didn't and thusly am not commenting on anything said therein). But when a game as heavily story driven as Heavy Rain comes out, perhaps you could wait just a little longer than 48 hours before posting an apparent spoilerific article? I love to read every article GR posts but this is just one I can't bring myself to. Sorry, Dave :(
  • dante1924 - February 25, 2010 6:45 p.m.

    @Cyberninja I think the killer is scott shelby. Wow, these do seem like big plotholes. Especially the one where Ethan wakes up with origami in his hand. The butterfly challenge makes no sense either.
  • Cyberninja - February 25, 2010 6:36 p.m.

    so who is the killer was he one of the play able chacters
  • mattdark - February 25, 2010 5:46 p.m.

    Plot Hole 11 What? You mean the guy who lay the whole thing out wouldnt have a map? Or wouldnt go to a dead-end, then lay the glass out as he back-tracks to an intersection? Yeah, I have to agree that some of these are certainly trying to push it.
  • John-117 - February 25, 2010 5:14 p.m.

    A new breed of fanboy is born... the GamesRadar fanboy. I enjoy this site too, but sweet tap-dancing Christ people need to calm down about some of the criticisms leveled against an article you have no hand in. I didn't read too many of these as to not have the plot completely spoiled but they don't seem that bad. The more I play the game the more I disagree with your opinion on it; storytelling is top notch and while not perfect is definitely enthralling. All a matter of taste I suppose, especially after looking at the widely varying opinions that reviewers have of the game.
  • txtIanC - February 25, 2010 4:53 p.m.

    @crumbdunky You need to wise the fuck up bro. Ima bout to get all EBM up in here. This is an opinion article. The reviews GR posts they are opinions. Dont get all butthurt; you can disagree with the opinion that David has and hell you can disagree with the review; but look turd, dont talk shit about the most unbiased games site on the web. If you want flowers and colorful unicorns blown up your ass go read a review on IGN. If you want an unbiased opinion contiune to read articles on GR.
  • TFUPrivateIron - February 25, 2010 4:49 p.m.

    I wouldn't really call these plot holes. More like circumstantial anomalies. Plot holes might take away from the game. These don't really.

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