Great Debate: Backward compatibility vs. HD remakes
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Great Debate: HD vs. BC
In an ideal world, backward compatibility and HD updates would peacefully and happily co-exist. However, Sony’s release this week of the God of War Saga and Ratchet & Clank Collection reminds us that this is not the case.
Because the PlayStation 3 was stripped of its ability to run PlayStation 2 games early in its lifecycle, for most gamers, these HD remakes are the only way to revisit Sony’s classics, short of dredging up a last-gen console. But maybe that’s not such a bad thing. After all, the HD remakes sport a crisp new sheen, one that’s far more palatable to current sensibilities. And it’s not like they play any different.
The next generation of Xbox and PlayStation consoles is coming on, and the rise of HD remakes is sure to add a new wrinkle to the inevitable backward compatibility debate. Having emerged victorious on the question of free-to-play, Hollander Cooper (1-0-0) takes on GamesRadar newcomer Tom Magrino (0-0-0) in...
Great Debate: HD Updates vs. Backward Compatibility
GR Debate pits two editors in a head-to-head battle to hash over some of gaming’s hottest topics. Have a subject you want them to discuss? Let us know in the comments and we’ll wrangle some editors to talk it over. -
Tom says: HD remakes disincentives devs to support backward compatibility
Tom: Let’s take a look at the business here. If someone gets it in their head that they can sell you something, it’s just business to brutally suppress anything that could inhibit those sales. Backward compatibility is just such a hurdle. Of the big three, Sony took the lead in withholding its legacy catalogue this generation (explicitly to juice PS3 game sales, mind you), and you’d better believe that Microsoft and Nintendo have been closely monitoring the outcome.
Cooper: For past generations? Sure, but that ship has already sailed--just as you said, the current gen is already essentially dead when it comes to BC. For the next generation, however, there’s still incentive for developers to support BC. Why? Downloadable content. The idea that people can pop in their old game and then spend money on new content? That’s more than enough incentive to have developers begging console-makers to allow current-gen games to play on the next-gen.
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Hollander says: Old games look awful in HD
Cooper: Seriously, go ahead and load up a last-gen game on your HDTV and watch as your favorite characters are warped, blurred, and disfigured into a grotesque mass of pixels. Standard definition games simply weren’t made to be played on high-definition TVs, and it really show. HD remakes, however, acknowledge the resolutionary leap forward the current generation (of televisions) has taken, restoring the games to the way we remember them, instead of the way they actually were.
Tom: According to MarketResearch.com, HDTV penetration stands at just over 25 percent of households worldwide as of the end of 2011. Now, I don’t know about my esteemed 25 percenter colleague here, but I don’t think game companies should sacrifice backward compatibility just so that the--yeah, I’ll say it--elite (and shallow?) few can enjoy prettier graphics.
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Tom says: Backward compatibility preserves stylistic integrity of original
Tom: Have you seen the Mona Lisa lately? Still pretty solid, right? Maybe it wouldn’t be so hot if some dude ran it through a 3D printer and hung the copy in the Louvre. Games have artistic integrity just the same as other art forms, and running them through the HD machine perverts the idea of time and place that made them so special in the first place. HD updates cheapen what they represent to us; they condescend our ability to appreciate lasting quality.
Cooper: Yes, games have artistic integrity, but last-gen games were made in a time where we used a completely different television technology to view them. Now, with HD, they look blurred and awful without any upscaling, and unless you’re asking everyone to have a second TV in every room, it’s a lot easier for them to either hold on to old consoles or stick to HD remakes. Also, re: your Mona Lisa thing, see this.
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Hollander says: If you don’t own the old game it’s often hard to track it down
Cooper: It’s idealistic to expect everyone to own every game, and as retailers continue to phase out last generation’s titles, it becomes more difficult to track them down. What good is backwards compatibility for Marvel vs. Capcom 2 if the game is nearly impossible to find? What about Okami? Or Zone of the Enders? Many of the games getting HD remakes are difficult to find, and they make it easier for more people to play more games.
Tom: Specious argument alert! HD remakes do not predicate availability of legacy titles. For years, game companies have been rereleasing collections of older games on new platforms. Games like Midway Arcade Treasures, Mega Man Anniversary Collection... no, I don’t think I even need to go on. Let’s just say that if game companies never rereleased a game in its original glory, then the GBA would lose half its catalogue.
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Tom says: Backward compatibility has immediacy
Tom: The original God of War hit the PS2 in 2005, and the inimitable God of War 2 followed in 2007. Guess how many times I was able to revisit those stellar hits on my PS3 in the four and two years, respectively, that it took for the God of War Collection to arrive in 2009. Those who answered zippolla get a flaming sword.
Cooper: Yeah, there’s something to be said about playing the games you bought for your old system whenever you want--which is why you’re able to play them on your old system whenever you want. It might mean keeping your PS2 out for a few extra years, but then you can enjoy the immediacy of the last-generation while the rest of us (or those who didn’t own those games in the first place) immerse ourselves in the current one.
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Hollander says: HD remakes give games a second chance at success
Cooper: Sometimes publishers promote games poorly, release them at the wrong time, or do something else that results in an awesome title being buried. HD remakes give developers, publishers, and (more importantly) games a second chance to succeed. Okami and Shadow of the Colossus getting new versions--instead of simply being playable on new consoles--gives gamers an excuse to play classics they might have missed, and gives developers another shot at correctly promoting a developer’s work.
Tom: Hey, look. Another specious argument. Sure, HD remakes give games a second chance for success. But so do standard rereleases. Plus, the nice thing about ports is that they’re comparatively quick to produce, which frees up developers to get back to what they should be doing: making new games. Wouldn’t you rather have the folks cranking on new, original content anyway?
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Tom says: Backward compatibility guarantees all games live on, not just the curated few
Tom: I know you all. I know that some of you are freaks, if only for certain obscure, niche games. It could be NHRA Drag Racing Countdown to the Championship 2007 or .hack//G.U.vol.2//Reminisce or All Star Pro-Wrestling III, but I can guarantee you that if HD updates become the new norm, there will be exactly zero people on the development side pushing to have these ridiculous, yet cherished, titles remade. With no backward compatibility, expect them to be lost to time.
Cooper: If JoJo’s Bizzare Adventure could get an HD remake, anything can. But if you’re not content waiting for your old, favorite game to be bumped to HD, I’ll say the same thing I said earlier: Don’t throw away your old console. And don’t sell it to GameStop, either--they’ll only give you like $20 anyway.
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Hollander says: Achievements and trophies give you more reasons to play
Cooper: Gamers have adopted a Pavlovian reaction to the noise of an Achievement or Trophy being unlocked. The telltale ding immediately triggers a sensation of success, and though it’s minor, it adds incredible replayability to HD remakes. Collecting all of the pearls in Beyond Good & Evil was sort of meaningless before, but now, with the HD version, you’re given incentive to continue playing, getting more bang for your buck and attaining new milestones to strive for.
Tom: If you need the tinny sound of a bell to make you feel good about ripping the wings off 100 harpies, then I feel sorry for you. Progressing through good games is a reward unto itself. And sure, there was certainly buzz around unlocking Achievements in the nascent days of the current gen, but does anyone really care about the size of their Gamerscore or Trophy collection these days?
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Judgment
Arguments thus made, Tom and Hollander rest their case. Leave a comment below letting us know who you think won, or if you think there’s another angle to the argument altogether. And don’t worry about hurting their feelings--they’re more focused on the whole “punishment by death” thing to fret over dissenting opinions.
Want to read more Great Debates? Check out our previous entries, Is the free-to-play model better for gamers? and Mario vs. Sonic.
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aireen-jah - November 26, 2012 2:03 p.m.
the only reason Sony stopped producing hardware based ps2 emulated ps3's is because the emotion engine CPU for ps2 emulation was too expensive to produce and make profit off so they tried partial software based emulation on the next models and that had worser compatibility than the hardware based version so they scraped the idea after 2 years of development. and discontinued backwards compatibility, as for Microsoft's 360 team had the intention of including B.C but saw more earnings in releasing the games for the last Gen with up-scaled resolution and tweaked graphics ad shading variables much like Sony does now basically to produce a better display of graphics on hdtv devices. . personally i've never bought an Hd remake version because i can emulate my ps1 and ps2 games on my pc better than any ps3 emulation . note that with written permission from Sony Entertainment America Corporation prior to making my own emulation program with permitted use of my own bios number from one of my old ps2's i had purchased. To legally play and create my own games with Linux PlayStation 2 build 2001 which i also have written consent to use and to modify existing software in the PlayStation 2. under conditions that i request prior written consent to further develop existing software for public . -
dondiablo29 - September 6, 2012 6:36 a.m.
To be honest, I think the two need to co-exist, I mean, backwards compatibility needs to be there on every platform really and truly, but that doesn't mean I dislike HD remakes, I think they're great,not only do the older games look better this way, trophies do give you more incentive to try certain things in games -
listerofsmeg42 - September 5, 2012 11:10 a.m.
I don't feel you can pick one or the other I think that both are needed. Backwards compatibility helps new consoles get off the ground in the beginning and HD remakes help a new audience experience the games without being put off by old tech and vet gamers get new content like achievements or never released levels. You can't pick one both are essential. -
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moothead2 - September 4, 2012 7:27 a.m.
While backwards compatibility is nice to have, pretty much every console you'd want can be had for a small sum these days making it a rather pointless and expensive addition (especially in the PS3s case). Many Ps2 games look dire on a HDTV and having to make space for the Goliath that is a CRT TV is something I don't want to do when a stunning (compared to the ps2 on a HDTV) HD remake is available. -
jackthemenace - September 1, 2012 2:52 p.m.
When buying a PS3, I deliberately decided to get the oldest, most awkward model of PS3 I could, JUST so I could have backwards compatibility. HD remakes are all well and good- the addition of achievements, better graphics, being able to get rare games, that stuff's GREAT. But getting a few games at HD level should NOT come at the price of not being able to play all the others. When buying both my 360 AND my PS3, I had to trade in their predecessors in order to afford them (bear in mind, this was a few years back now), and the ability to play the games I already had while I was waiting till I could afford to buy more games for THAT system was somewhat of a necessity. If the next generations of consoles comes out WITHOUT backwards compatibility to let me play the 360/PS3 games I've already got while I can't afford 730/PS4 games, I'll be sitting it out for a good while. -
tehtimeisnow - August 31, 2012 8:45 p.m.
all sony dose is rip u off with stuped hd remakes seruiosely just get a xobx cuz there loyal to there customars and they make new origanal games that isnt rehashed or remaked or anything like that -
FreezeRay - August 31, 2012 12:49 p.m.
Backwards Compatibility all the way. it seems like the only reason to get an HD remake is for Achievements or graphics. if you are getting an additional copy of a game for the achievements alone then fine but you are missing the point. just get a new game. I can't get behind a concept like HD remakes since the whole point is to take an already finished product, slap a coat of paint on it, and re-sell it to the same market as the first one, most of which own the original copy. Seems like a cheap money grab to me. -
darksongbird - September 6, 2012 1:51 p.m.
That makes a lot of sense, FreezeRay. I'm glad you said it. :) -
Zippercdrr - August 31, 2012 11:15 a.m.
I do want backwards compatibility, but if it means $500 at launch (I'm looking at you PS3) then it may not be worth it to me. I'm siding more with Cooper. I do like the originals, but I have released my old CRT screen into the wild, so it can run free and hunt down old '08s infomercials. Yes, I can connect my old consoles to the TV, but I grew up when you could get an NES new. Not everyone did, and getting a NES is getting trickier out side of emulation boxes or emulators. Some games may never get an HD remake, like my Friend Earthbound here. Good luck getting that cart. Its all left to the Emulator now. FF7 is to complext for an HD remake to make financial success when the jagged polligons still sell. Other games are getting HD remakes though. Okami was never a large release, but word of mouth, along constant pushing by the onramp to the Internet, have brought it to peoples attention. These games do deserve HD remakes. It means more of us can enjoy it. In the end, we all win on that -
SentientSquidMachine - August 31, 2012 8:05 a.m.
I've only bought the God of War HD Collection, to replay before I bought 3, but I'm in the both camp. I appreciate the trophies and added modes, and what not, but all HD releases are not equal, and with my PS2 library, there are plenty of games that I think still look decent, so if there are no major improvements, I do not want to keep buying the same game, and young kids who did not grow up with a PSOne, or were too young to appreciate the PS2, may find the prices of...well any game for those systems, outrageous. So the HD collections allow for a new generation to appreciate great games, the legal way. -
BigCj34 - August 31, 2012 7:42 a.m.
How about the best of both, and have a backwards compatibility feature that re-renders games into a HD resolution? Console emulators on the PC do that, PCSX2 is a notable example for the PlayStation 2, and a lot of games rival their HD remakes. All you need is a good computer to run them. If companies are hell bent on making money, then they could always charge for the BC feature. -
SentientSquidMachine - August 31, 2012 7:57 a.m.
sssshhhh. We Don't speak about those....but you are right. I bought FFVII twice, and IX twice, so I figured the next one was on the house. -
thorvath - August 31, 2012 6:50 a.m.
I'm in the "both" camp. When an HD remake is done right... improves the original game in some degree whether that be prettying it up like God of War or throwing in extras like the Subsistence version of MGS3 with the old MSX Metal Gears then that's a value that's added. When an HD remake takes away from the original like the weird sound issues in Prince of Persia then it's not worth it. That being said I have a backwards compatible PS3. I just used it to play Beyond Good & Evil and it still looks pretty good. So does Devil May Cry 3, Kingdom Hearts, and a bunch of other classics. The best part is that you can adjust the resolution with the PS3 so they aren't stretched and blurred to hell. I hooked up the old PS2 on the same TV and suddenly you have to fiddle with a dozen picture settings to get even close to the same effect. I wouldn't want to lose that option especially for games where the HD remake is subpar as reviewers have implied for DMC. One of the arguments that stuck with me was the idea of straight re-releases. If there's going to be a re-release wouldn't you want something better than the original? The Virtual Console $10 for a port of Ocarina of Time (minus my precious rumble pak)isn't nearly as good a value as it seemed 5 years ago. -
thorvath - August 31, 2012 6:59 a.m.
Also on the straight port re-release taking away dev time from new games.. I'm pretty sure these HD remakes have separate teams. The God of War Collection didn't cause God of War 3 to be delayed. As I understand it a company called Bluepoint is pretty much solely in the remake business and is behind the most well-received ones like God of War, Shadow of the Colossus, and Metal Gear. Sprucing up an old game and producing a brand new title probably doesn't require the same skill set. -
ericthesmith - August 31, 2012 6:43 a.m.
I own two of the examples given for hard-to-find last-gen games (MvC2 and Okami) and I love them in their original form. That's why I play them on Dreamcast and PS2 respectively. I have to agree with Coop's argument that if you want to play an older game, then do it on that console. I also have to mention that HD remakes are great for outdated graphics and controls. The remakes of Shadow of the Colossus and Ocarina of Time (which I've found to be essentially unplayable today in its original format) are great examples of this. Anyway, good debate. I went into it with my own thoughts on the matter but I found myself swaying to the other opinion a little more than I expected. -
Mooshon - August 31, 2012 2:32 a.m.
Every now and again I get that pang to play an old game. Invariably though it looks like ass on my tv and I lose heart after an hour. Seems that I need HD remakes as they look as good as my memory of them. I think what Sony has done with the Vita is a great solution though; give you a free method to transfer your game catalogue to the new platform. Nostalgia problem sorted, without getting ripped off or going in the loft. The next gen probably holds monthly subscriptions to old catalogues rather than back compatibility. As long as the price point was low enough I'd be more than happy with that. -
Hobogonigal - August 31, 2012 12:50 a.m.
Sorry Cooper but I'm with backwards compatibility. When I buy a new console the older console typically just gets moved to the attic so if I want to replay an old game there's a lot of hassle. I have to find it amongst all the boxes up there, get it down, dust it off and then hope that it works. With backwards compatibility I can just use the console that's already set up. Also, I would be pretty infuriated if I had bought a game for one console and then had to pay again for the privilege to play it on the next console. Its sad though that a lot of people absolutely need achievements/trophies to justify them playing a game. It should be played for the experience and fun, not a number that will give you back absolutely nothing. I mean if you got a prize every so many achievement points I could understand why people would become so attached but there is literally no reward or payback for gaining these points, especially when most challenges aren't even that fun.
darksongbird - September 6, 2012 10:44 a.m.