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BioShock


BioShock 2: GamesRadar reader response

We ranted, you replied. Now the discussion continues

Words: David Houghton, GamesRadar UK

You might remember that late last week I ran an opinion piece covering my current fear and loathing regarding BioShock 2. It prompted plenty of debate and, frankly, I was blown away by the scale, passion and depth of your response. It seems a hell of a lot of you care about BioShock just as much as I do, and that makes me a very happy man indeed.

It would have been too messy to respond to you all in the article comments, so I decided to turn a feature over to your best, funniest and most thoughtful responses and throw in a few more of my own in reply to yours. Some comments have been edited for reasons of space and clarity, and sorry to everyone I couldn't fit in.


Wave360 says: I played BioShock a year later than everyone and it is one of the best games ive ever played! I wish BioShock would end and the creators would go on and make something similarily enticing, mature, gruesome, touching, twisted, etc. as BioShock but not make it BioShock!

I will still get this but i wish they would leave BioShock as it was and make a new IP. If something is perfect, don't ruin it!

skaface says: I respect the opinion of the editor, but this thinking implies that sequels of great games HAVE to be inferior. Thinking of Fallout, Killzone, God of War, Resident Evil, Street Fighter, etc. it occurs to me that even the most unique (ok, leave Killzone out of it) game can be topped (but not replaced) by its sequel.

I say: A fair point skaface, a fair point indeed. As a big Street Fighter II/IV player, I categorically agree that some games’ mechanics can be improved through iteration. But my issue is that although BioShock 2 could bring certain functionality improvements, that’s about all it could bring with its currently-known scenario. To me, BioShock was about much more than the mechanics, and a predictable rehash just can’t bring about that same experience.


Montag says: For me only Half-Life had the gonads to make a better sequel, but in that case the story needed more to be complete.

I say: Perfect case in point. H-L 2 (one of my favourite games of all time, by the way) worked because the first game ended on a massively open “Anything can happen now” note, which Valve then extrapolated on a truly global scale in a later time period. That’s exactly the sort of reconceptualised “jumping off point” approach I wanted for BioShock 2, but sadly it’s not to be. Let’s face it, the approach B2 is taking is the same that Half-Life used for its expansion packs, not its sequel.

NipplesTheSuperHippo says: You said: "It will be something we’ve already seen before with a few more cracks and leaks. The magic of Rapture came from its newness. It was the sheer originality of its design that made it such an immersive world to explore."

Exactly, the newness, but the newness of what was seen. Would not the unknown parts of a mysterious city be new? There are new environments and or parts of the city that were unexplored, new weapons, probably new plasmids, new gameplay, new main enemy, and even the cookie cutter splicers have evolved into something different and new.


scbyfn4evr says: Come to think of it, BioShock 2 would be kinda like having a Shadow of the Colossus 2, or Okami 2, and that would be laaaaaaaem.


garnsr says: The sequels to star Wars were not absolutely necessary, but Empire was the best of the lot. Then they went for the prequels, and ruined a lot of the magic of the originals. I fear BioShock 2 will fall into the latter category, but we'll see. Sometimes you need to have a whole trilogy or so for all of the parts to add up to a magnificent whole. Sometimes you just need the one.

I say: I’ll definitely concede the Star Wars point to a degree. The A New Hope stands alone pretty well, but it does indeed work a lot better when taken in the context of the whole trilogy. The thing is though, if you go back and watch Episode IV objectively, hardly anything actually happens. The plot is basically the first few hours of any JRPG, leading up to the first boss fight (the Death Star trench fight), so to that end it was ripe for expanding. To me, BioShock’s story just felt complete by the end.

raidensnake says: I can see your doubts about BioShock 2, however I feel the endings of the 1st weren't enough, they didn't sew anything together and left me asking more questions than they answered. I want to know what really made Ryan create Rapture and the early constructions of it. (BioShock in construction would be awesome - the optimism to complement and off set the horror we saw at its decay)

Also how free and autonomous people made the decisions they made, to firstly join him in Rapture, then the chaotic choices afterwards. The whole ideological and philosophical roots of this need to be explained more deeply, which means returning to Rapture.

I understand the concept of the 1st Big Daddy, almost like the Biblical Adam making choices, he is in a world he does not know, but it came about because of his own indirect choosing. In addition, the how and why the Big Daddy chooses to 'be' this creature and his interaction with the little sisters needs exploring.

Perhaps it will take a BioShock 3 to really tackle these issues.

I say: What you’ve just described would make a bloody brilliant BioShock prequel. It actually sounds pretty similar to Ken Levine’s original idea for BioShock, which spanned decades and took in an entire civil war.

Following the entire rise and fall of Rapture through the first Big Daddy’s transformation from ordinary man to metal-cased monster could be an electrifying and truly epic experience. It would have to be a very different game from the first BioShock, and probably an even more story-led one, but if the franchise is going to be expanded then “very different” is exactly what I want.


oryandymackie says: Yeah, being a Big Daddy will detract from the original; the protagonist Jack timidly opening the doors to the lighthouse and skulking quietly down to the bathysphere. If you're a Big Daddy with a huge drill strapped to your arm you're pretty much fearless. And fear played a huge part in the game.


theschwartzb says:
I think the only truly disheartening flaw is the fact that you will be playing as a Big Daddy. Honestly, in BioShock, you were just a regular guy (kinda) who was in a plane crash and found "refuge" in a giant, mysterious lighthouse. You started off the game not knowing what would happen to you, and that was one of the biggest elements of the game. Being a Big Daddy in BioShock 2 will take that mystery, the fear, and the unknown out of the game quite a bit.

ZiegZeon says: I agree that the game is a bad idea, though I do like the idea of playing as a Big Daddy, something that should have been DLC and a pure experience, i.e. no plasmids, slow, and it should have been just you having to protect the Little sister. But now that you are THE FIRST BIG DADDY EVAR, you're suddenly better then the others. I think that the CONCEPT is sound (maybe START in rapture, or a revisit) but not the whole game.

I say: I totally agree with you on that one. I was actually a bit disappointed not to get full-on Big Daddy powers near the end of Bioshock (Let’s face it, who doesn’t want to recreate that first Big Daddy/Splicer/drill through the chest encounter from behind the visor?), but it’s something that I can only see being satisfying in a short bursts. That in mind, it would have made a brilliant Bioshock equivalent of Resi 4’s Assignment Ada.


solsunforge says: The whole reason why so many liked BioShock was the experience of going through it and being in constant peril. Being a Big Daddy rids you of that feeling it in my opinion gives a god mode type of feeling. To me a watered down sequel is not better then nothing at all.


 
56 Comments
Order Comments: Newest First | Oldest First
Doorstop  - 6 months 13 days ago 
Hmm, maybe I should play Bioshock....
pimlicosound  - 6 months 13 days ago 
David, any chance you can get someone from 2K Marin to respond to the fears generally shared by us gamers? I'd like to know if they have secrets up their sleeves that will help BS2 rise above our preconceptions.
Gene  - 6 months 13 days ago 
@pimlicosound Agreed.

Honesty, do you guys think that nobody at 2K has thought of these? I'm pretty sure they're trying their damndest to create something to equal or surpass BioShock, and I refuse to make any sort of judgement on the precious little information we've been handed thus far. Do we know much about the story at all? Do we know how Rapture will be (re-)designed? No.

Have patience. I'm positive this game will deliver the goods.
skaface  - 6 months 13 days ago 
thanks to the editor for such a good feedback, thats what a community is all about. i guess we'll all (the gamers) have to see the finished product itself to do a rating.

Keep up the good work, David Houghton.
skyline19  - 6 months 13 days ago 
As soon I saw bioshock 2 announced I was sceptic. This has only made me more sceptical. :(

Damnit!

Great feedback though.
DEC4D3  - 6 months 13 days ago 
Sorry I might rant a bit here. =/ and repeat whats already been said..Just a opinion and thought, also its in NO ORDER because I am thinking and writing at the same time =). ALSO THIS BIG POST MIGHT HAVE SOME SPOILERS!

Reading through this really gets me thinking.. And the fact how I agree with most of the Negative points here. I mean playing as a big daddy? That kinda ruins it as someone stated in the article and it should TOTALLY be like a short part of a game (e.g RE4 Ada as mr.David stated). What would of been a more original idea was like some Action Survival game so you scavenge food and eughh water? And if you don't eat you get things like dizzy vision, decreased stamina or something, stay true to the original! (Yes too much Fallout 3 goodness =P). Bioshock was a instant favourite for me, a environment that draws you in and is real is every aspect, the deep story and characters so many things made Bioshock such a great game even today it stuns me with fantastic effects and scripted events, hell even the water was real..ish...kinda..eh....cool? The good blend of FPS action and a LITTLE RPG stuff made Bioshock stand out from the point-and-shoot FPS crowd. Maybe BS2 could of (NO ITS NOT BULL SHIT 2 >=O) had hand to hand combat! And maybe Plasmids could of had negative effects on the player so you have to think ahead!

Playing as a Big daddy isn't a all bad concept with all the drillin and pillagin and the shootin but it was meant to be a Game sequence that lasted what. 2 levels or so? I mean who doesnt miss fearing every corner, looking for shadows, scavenging for items when you hear a sound, all these factors made Bioshock a deep deep gaming experience that lasted from the very start to the end. But then again, why don't we just play as a splicer? Playing as Jack made us unique and kind of a invader to Rapture so while Jack may of been a normal guy you pass everyday on the streets, he was a intruder, a outsider of sorts to Rapture but as the story unfolded Jack started to slowly fit in and play a vital part to the story which was to me, a very very nice touch. How the developers handle Character Development is going to be interesting but at the same time I fear that the characters will be forgettable.

After watching the gameplay trailer just then, I realise how no offense...BLAND Bioshock 2 looks, yes it has the awesome Plasmid powahs but they weren't new and seemed to be slightly boring and how the weapons didnt really seem unique. The drill was my biggest disappointment, NOT.EXCITING.AT.ALL. Four words to describe what I saw...HOWEVER

The big sister does kind of appeal to me, and the plot on how she came to be but I am worried on how she will intervene with Mr.First Big Daddy, scripted or un-scripted random encounters? Also the fact how Little sisters remain virtually unchanged, protecting them while they harvest, which is just really taking one part of Bioshock and just put it all over the place.

Well I have talked alot and I apologize for ranting like some fan boi but my thoughts were begging to be..reaD?
DEC4D3  - 6 months 13 days ago 
I apologize for a 2nd post but. The bit where I stated "Why not just play as a splicer?", I meant to say, why did we have to be a Big Daddy? I mean Splicers are a staple mark of Bioshock and are just as important as the Big D aren't they? There were so many possibilities for 2 (Maybe even a Tycoon game!!!.......>.<?) and 2K should of explored them first before production.

Nuff Said from me!
Evernight  - 6 months 13 days ago 
I think we need to see Bioshock 2 as a seperate game set in the same world. No longer are we a weak man in a new and strange place. We are a tank and a defender of Little Sisters - or are we? Bioshock was a huge ripoff of System Shock 2 so maybe BS2 will be unique and something good on its own.
LoaMcLoa  - 6 months 13 days ago 
Ok.. I sequal might work.. But arn't they a bit too desperate? I mean: Big sister?.. Geez just call it Wanna-Be Big Daddy.. And the fact that you're playing as a Big Daddy yourself is not so original either :S
And I would like to go to another place than Rapture once again :(
But I think this will be a masterpiece anyway, just like the first one :D
LoaMcLoa  - 6 months 13 days ago 
(Take away the "I" in the "I sequal might work" comment and put in a "A" instead xD Also I'm aware of that I spelled sequel wrong. I'm abit sleepy ^^)
gamesradar_george1  - 6 months 13 days ago 
@pimlicosound, @Gene, in Dave's absence - he's at an Activision event today - we tried to get 2K to comment, but they declined the offer. We'll keep trying as we'd love to know what they think of Dave's opinion.
oryandymackie  - 6 months 13 days ago 
Finally. I have been recognised by the GR elite. That's all I wanted. My comment is up there!
pimlicosound  - 6 months 13 days ago 
Thanks, George. That's perhaps even more worrying. The one ray of hope: 2K could only have responded by revealing all the tricks up their sleeves, and they aren't ready to reveal it all yet. But if that is the case, they could at least say so.
garnsr  - 6 months 13 days ago 
Argument is an intellectual process, it isn't just saying "no it isn't." And lots of games go off in the wrong direction even though the developers start off with an idea they think is good, but just doesn't pan out. Letting them know our thoughts could help them keep it on the right track. And it might turn out like Devil May Cry, good first game, not so good sequel, good prequel for the third.
erreip199  - 6 months 13 days ago 
One of the aspects i enjoyed the most about first bioshock was its totally unexpected plot twist, i remember shooting walls in rage and i also do recall the mentioned feeling of doubt to fight when encountering a big daddy ill miss that experience but hopefully new experiences shall be implemented in the sequel
NipplesTheSuperHippo  - 6 months 13 days ago 
Cool, I got mentioned. Thanks!
Rutter  - 6 months 13 days ago 
Rant time! But only because i liked Bioshock so much. The story mode beats most films, let alone games. Unlike films it's also interactive- there are multiple endings and you have to make your own choices. You really didn't know if you were making the right choice rescuing all of the little sisters. The whole game is fantastic.... apart from ***SPOILERS*** the last hour, which is just a minor blip. Protecting the little sister, while frantic, was very repetitive and annoying. The 2 endings of the game were pretty poor as well, though they did tie up things nicely. However, BS2 is taking the last hour of BS as its source material. How long before gamers get sick of protecting their little sister ALL THE ****ING TIME? Not long. And how are you supposed to be scared of what lurks in the shadows when you have a massive drill??

I also dont like the fact that you are a "special" big daddy. Why is telenbaum talking to you? Are you suddenly able to think rationally? The only reason i can see this storyline being used is to sell money to kids who want to play as a BIG DADDY. The now feral splicers arent human enough for you to sympasise with them, battles with the big sister are going to be HEAVILY scripted, and the element of fear is now gone.

Bearing in mind that the game is now missing its two most interesting characters, I thought 2K were going to do something entirely new and different, be it a brand new game, prequel, or set many years later, with the city in ruins. But what they are giving us is something none of us actually want- more of the same, minus the story, emotion and originality.

Rant over!
Z-man427  - 6 months 13 days ago 
throughironsights says: Is it just me or do all game critics from the UK love to be pessimist assholes?

I say: It’s just you. We don’t love anything

couldn't have said it better
jar-head  - 6 months 13 days ago 
Houghton Wins. Brit's are not pissy, it's just his opinion, and the concept that he even Wrote about this in this follow up, says so. We actually need more people like David to argue with.
Picnic1  - 6 months 13 days ago 
Further to my previous post on the original article, I agree with nearly all of it except perhaps that going in to the sea is necessarily a bad thing. I never thought of the sea as being the ultimate villain, right from the start when I realised that, if I didn't swim to the entrance to Rapture, I wouldn't freeze to death in Atlantic waters or be attacked by a shark (at least, no-one has said that happens if you stay there for a long time).

On the other hand, once in Rapture, there is the appealing metaphor of Rapture being just a couple of cracks away from disaster. But going in to the sea in a protective suit doesn't harm that relationship, just as when someone got in a cage and looked at Jaws didn't harm that film. They won't necessarily concentrate on immediate danger underwater- it can instead allow a moment of quiet contemplation away from the horrors in Rapture, just as the diary rooms did in Resident Evil, with the added extra of having more things to explore- they could keep it very realistic or they could have a wrecked ship and other random debris.

Bioshock apparently takes place 10 years later in 1970- on the one hand it seems a shame that the game shows no significant stylistic changes as happened in the real world in that time- the creation of brutalist architecture for instance seems to mean nothing to a world trapped in an art deco period with 40s/50s music. But on the other hand, this could be looked upon as having deep meaning- despite all of Rapture’s chaos, it is in reality arguably changing much less than the real world was during that time- it is a hermetically sealed bubble. It is an irony, of course, that the comforting sound of such an innocuous songs as ‘Beyond the sea’ are the soundtrack to such brutality.

To try to be near as affecting as the first game, they probably would have had to leave it for a few years, maybe call it something else and try a different setting- I considered the idea of a quasi-Victorian ‘steam punk’ setting. But striking gold is hard enough but they had to laboriously craft it until it was the brilliant game that was Bioshock so I can’t blame them too much for not wanting to abandon that particular mine.
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