uhhh... does a video game relly need a good story? if a game with crappy mechanics has an excellent story it will still be a crappy game... but if a good game has a crappy story (HALO) it won't stop many people from playing it

This is exactly what I've been arguing for months on end on forums and blogs. Thank you, GamesRadar for putting this up. The only thing though is I think Metal Gear Solid works for some odd reason, and that may be because you have to accept that you aren't really playing a game when you go through MGS4. It's really just a partly interactive narrative. That's how I went through it anyway and it really helped me like it even more. Great article though. This site is becoming the MUST-BE place to read thought-provoking intellectual pieces like this.

If you have nothing more intelligent to say than "FIRST", say nothing then!! Sorry, bat I'm getting really annoyed with people how that don't even read the article and jist post "first". This is just getting as other forums on the net. Comments like this should get moderated and if there is reincidence, the owner of the account should be banned!!

And about the article, I think it was very interesting and very well written as always.

first id like to say that i generally agree with the article, but its not as big a deal to me. i guess ive learned to accept a lot of these things the way they are, and in many cases i enjoy cutscenes and consider them a welcome break from playing. sports like football and basketball have halftime; does that mean they suck at being pure sports? you could somewhat liken the halftime shows and timeouts to cutscenes in the sense that they break the flow of the action. hell, why not just get rid of the pause button in games?

also, i noticed that the examples of good story development you mentioned were all fps. how about listing something that isnt? i think the first person view gives a distinct advantage because it gives the illusion that you are looking thru the characters' eyes; it pits you right in the cockpit, so to speak. and if "proper" storytelling means making more first person games, ill stick with the so-called crappy storytelling because ive had my fill of fps for a while.

thats just my two cents, but like i said i do agree with what was said in general. i just dont find so much urgency to get the some of the problems fixed. and its kinda funny how right under this article there's a link for best videogame stories ever with a picture of mgs on it.

I completely disagree with this article. You don't need to make the choices for a good story to be told. MGS3 is a shining example, it's not a convoluted plot, It's just a good story. I don't want to make all the choices for the main character, then I wouldn't be told a story, I'd be writing one. I'm far too apathetic to write a story, so thanks for doing it for me, Final Fantasy.

I agree with timshank.
Horrible article full of shallow points. Note to readers: big words and good grammar are not equal to a valid point.

Oh, and like everyone else: Half-Life 2's story is pale in comparrison to MGS 3's despite the phenomenal gameplay. I can recall plenty of times in MGS 3 when my eyes bulged and my spine tingled, from parts in the game AND from the cutscenes (especially the end to include after the credits). Half-Life 2? Not so much.. I definitely got a rush from HL 2 at times, but I never really got THAT excited.

I don't know what a real story is because I enjoy the stories that I help progress in video games? Right. Things aren't going to change because things are just fine. Quit finding pointless reasons to bitch and enjoy what awesomeness you have been given.

Mass Effect was my first thought as well. That was a great story. I thought wow this would have made a bad ass movie. Seriously how many games can actually make you care about a character? Well Mass Effect managed to make you care about an entire ship full of them and then combine it with killer game play. Kudos to them for making such a sweet freakin' game.

Great article, I agree with this very much but I personally love cutscenes in games and the cinematice approach alot of games have, There has only been a couple of games that having a silent protantists work and halflife in my opinion isnt one of them, I hated how in halflife npcs would have full on conversations with freeman asking questions and so forth and he doesnt say a damn thing that pulled me out the game over and over again.

Zman I agree when comments say first its really annoying

Half-life 2 has a story? Where?

Cutscenes and linear gameplay = bad storytelling? NO.

The old LucasArts adventure games had plenty of cutscenes and were totally linear, yet they offered very good storytelling.

The real problem is this: Story follows Game.
The programmers, artists and level designers have the lead, the writers follow.

You want good storytelling? Well, hire good writers and give them the lead.
Solution: Game follows Story.
(example: Silent Hill 2)

Of course, as long as gamers go crazy for MGS4 despite its crap storytelling, there's little reason for developers to change their approach.

Agreed.

Realy?? Do MGS suck at its storyline? Maybe it did, but the storyline was a key 2 its success as a game..

"Realy?? Do MGS suck at its storyline? Maybe it did, but the storyline was a key 2 its success as a game.."

...sais everything about the industry's standard in storytelling.

Slightly late to the party, I'm currently playing through MGS4 for the first time and yes, the plot is nonsensical at times but it is by far the best of the series (not saying much!) and it is at least unique.

It's not as awful as, let's say, Resident Evil 4, whose story and script are embarrassingly diabolical. President's daughter?!?

Just imagine a survival horror with a tense script and plot, where you actually care about the characters. I think that would really add to an already magnificent game. Dead Space anyone?

I do think everyone's being a little harsh on GTAIV. With a cutscene running time well exceeding that of any film, and plenty of 'in-game' dialogue, I think it does a sensational job of it and had me involved with its bleak outlook on the world and decent sense of humour.

Good article, spot on about all things Valve.

yeah z-man427 ur right so wat if ur first its just going to piss people off if u post a comment saying "first"

I agree, to truly have a good story in a videogame developers need to stop using cutscenes and start using actions that can be interacted with, such as Half-Life 2. Although I think that Half-Life is also a bit flawed in a way, as even though you bond with the character you still must kill creatures to progress. I think that to be TRULY inteactive there must be an option of avoiding confrontation, because not everyone would like to burst into a room, guns blazing.

Well, I agree with both the article, and the counterpoints to the article that people have made.
But still, don't you want to be other people sometimes? I mean, I REALLY don't want to rip off one of my arms and be Radd in Bionic Commando ReArmed. Though I wouldn't mind the original, since he still had both arms and used a bionic attachment...
Anyways, it's cool to vicariously be someone else in another time/place, same as when I read a book, like Fight Club, I get a vicarious rush, but really, I would MUCH rather live my typical boring life than have hundreds of deaths laying on my conscious, hundreds, if not thousands more people all trying to kill me, and a grappling hook arm which would probably ruin my junk the first time I had to go pee.

And that's just one game's moral dilemmas made real.

Actually, Gamesradar people, maybe you should write an article about game consequences made real. Like how when you get arrested in GTA, you get your guns and money taken, but in real life, you'd be tried as the worst murderer in history.
Or photoshop the wasteland that earth would be after the Prince from Katamari got done rolling up everything on earth.
Or how activists would have a shit-fit over all the wild animals hunted to extinction in MMORPGS. And with crafting and resource harvesting, WOW would look like Dr. Seuss's The Lorax.
Or, continuing with BC Rearmed example, think of all the war crimes he might be charged with. I reality, the grunts we play in FPS would most likely be the fall guys for the public outcry over human rights violations and Geneva Convention violations that litter most gameplay.
Or, think of how easily the females in games fall for the protagonists. How desperate must Zelda be to seemingly fall for Link, a guy who never says one word, and she only meets once or twice a game.
Really, it's more than ridiculous, it's re-cock-ulous. At the end of God of War's first level, Kratos has slaughtered everything that moved, would most likely be covered in blood and viscera, despite the rain, and has two massive bloody blades permanently chained to his forearms, yet two hot babes he's never met want to have a threesome with him. (Maybe I've been approaching the opposite sex all wrong, being that I'm never drenched in the blood of my enemies when I talk to girls)
And yet, that doesn't seem take us out of the immersion. Yet plot holes, cut scenes, loading screens and poorly recorded cheesy dialogue does.
We're spoiled. (Yes, small flaws and details can really ruin immersion for me too. I'm spoiled too.)

Well I agree kinda. I mean yes video games are notoriouse for bad story lines. However, I did no think the story line for MGS4 was terrible it just had to many cutscenes. But there are some games with simply amazing story lines. The best that comes to mind is Bioshock. That game was like a movie both graphically and through the story line. I couldnt put it down.

Wow...Look at all the partisan and differing of opinions...Guess it couldn't be avoided with an article like this.

This is intended as an opinion piece right?

So, it makes sense that every developer should employ the same techniques as Valve and produce stories in the same way instead of the diverse spectrum of storytelling we have now? Personally I enjoy games differently based on their style of narrative. With games like HL2 I find myself truely immersed, yet at no point do I feel connected to Gordon Freeman. On the contrary I almost forget he exists as I have essentially replaced him in the story, which is fine, I'm simply disagreeing that the player (or at least me) feels connected to Gordon.

On the other hand I still enjoy games such as Metal Gear solid. Whilst I don't feel completely immersed within the game, I feel more connected to Snake as a character. I never feel the same sense that I am the protagonist as with Freeman, but I gain a connection to Snake by guiding him through his journey in its entirety. And it's this connection that makes the story so enjoyable and the cutscenes so riveting.

I just don't see why we should expell storytelling in the form of interactive cinema from the genre of videogames. Can't games like this have a place alongside the games that forfiet a protagonist for a more immersive nature? Isn't it better to have a diverse genre than one that employs the same storytelling technique for each game? Well I think it is, but that's my opinion, just as this article is David Houghton's.

wtf? mgs and final fantasy are awesome stories. gr is just being blunt